AndyStubbs
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:50 pm

ash73 wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:01 pm
Loving these retro renders of the Pi 400!

Image

From here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nopc7mJUDkM

I'd buy the Beeb version in a heartbeat.
Sadly I think I would have to buy them all (starting with the Amiga and Amstrad which matches the key colours of the mythical Elan that I always wanted) :D

Proud owner of 4 almost mint Amiga 500's in working order (2 500+'s with battery leakage taken care of and 2 classic 500's) - Nostalgia is an expensive and time consuming hobby lol
Last edited by AndyStubbs on Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AndyStubbs
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:00 pm

jamesh wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:18 pm
I'll pass that on - I also thought the HDMI cable was a bit short.
Not as short as the mouse cable - that barely reaches the correct position on the desk - not complaining its a cracking bit of kit but could use a little tweaking on cable lengths :)

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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:20 pm

AndyStubbs wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:00 pm
jamesh wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:18 pm
I'll pass that on - I also thought the HDMI cable was a bit short.
Not as short as the mouse cable - that barely reaches the correct position on the desk - not complaining its a cracking bit of kit but could use a little tweaking on cable lengths :)
OK, so passed it on for a possible future update. Apparently its been mentioned a few times!
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

alphanumeric
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:30 pm

If this has already been mentioned I missed it, and apologies.
One cool thing I have noticed with the Pi400 is, when you do the shutdown it removes power from the GPIO header. I have my Blinkt plugged in showing CPU temperature. On a Pi 4B 3B etc, on shutdown from the PiOS menu it remains lit up with what ever LEDs were lit when it shutdown. I have to remove power from the Pi to turn the LED's off. Or clear it and run the shutdown from my python file. No more having to clear it first.
This also means if your running a small SPI screen it will turn off on shutdown. Or anything with blinky lights on it.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:06 am

Some cool keyboard renders.
Serious rendering talent there.
RPF should look at selling them as kits?
Better hurry or the third party market will do it :lol:
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X-Gen
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:16 am

NinjaMig21 wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:41 pm
I've been running Pi 400 for a few days now. It's my first RPi ever, so here are some impressions from a new user.

- Build quality is very nice for a low cost piece of hardware like this. Keyboard is not perfect, mouse is cheap, but both usable.

- Performance is good enough for light desktop use. I use it for web browsing, learning Scratch with the kid etc. It's not an 8 core ryzen, but in general it's running OK with a stock Raspberry pi OS. I've tried Ubuntu mate and Twister OS, but I like the stock OS. I was surprised how well the 4GB version performs, I almost never go over 2.5GB of ram usage.

- Mine is running overclocked to 2200 cpu, 750 gpu without any problems or overheating. Temps stay well below 70 C even after long periods of high load. If you, for some reason, want to improve the thermals, there should be space for a slim fan inside. With some soldering and a qucik dremel job, you could improve the airflow of the case. But I really don't see the reason to do so.

- My Pi is always on, connected to ethernet. I run it from 2,5" 120GB SATA SSD and I have another 1TB HDD connected to it. With overclock and both drives connected i didn't notice any power issues, so the stock power supply looks decent.

- I run Plex server on it. Works great for 1080p direct play. Haven't really tried transcoding or doing multiple streams, but this could be a great addition for a living room, running Plex and emulators. I know the regular RPi is smaller and could do the same thing.

- I haven't opened it yet, but I've seen some videos and I think it may be possible to squeeze an internal M.2 drive in there. I already have the usb to m.2 adapter and I am waiting for the SSD to arrive.

- Mini HDMI ports don't bother me at all. I do miss the 3.5mm audio jack and media keys on the keyboard (at least volume up/down/mute). It was PITA to set up triggerhappy for someone who is not very familiar with linux.

Overall, a great little machine. I am trying to think of reasons why I need a few more :)
I think what could help, is replace the dual sided tape/thermal tape on the cpu of the pi 400, with thermal paste.
And a little 30-50mm by 10mm fan to mainly cool the board next to the cpu, having some of that air pass by the edges of the cpu.
Can't do much better than that.

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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:04 am

aBUGSworstnightmare wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:41 am
Eben confirmed in the blog that it's possible to swap the keyboard (entire top portion) of a stock RPI keyboard with the Pi400 keyboard
So it should be possible to swap the white keyboard for a gray one?
Nice option (ok, you may want to spray the bloody underwear) until a gray version arrives.

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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:48 am

X-Gen wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:16 am
NinjaMig21 wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:41 pm
I've been running Pi 400 for a few days now. It's my first RPi ever, so here are some impressions from a new user.

- Build quality is very nice for a low cost piece of hardware like this. Keyboard is not perfect, mouse is cheap, but both usable.

- Performance is good enough for light desktop use. I use it for web browsing, learning Scratch with the kid etc. It's not an 8 core ryzen, but in general it's running OK with a stock Raspberry pi OS. I've tried Ubuntu mate and Twister OS, but I like the stock OS. I was surprised how well the 4GB version performs, I almost never go over 2.5GB of ram usage.

- Mine is running overclocked to 2200 cpu, 750 gpu without any problems or overheating. Temps stay well below 70 C even after long periods of high load. If you, for some reason, want to improve the thermals, there should be space for a slim fan inside. With some soldering and a qucik dremel job, you could improve the airflow of the case. But I really don't see the reason to do so.

- My Pi is always on, connected to ethernet. I run it from 2,5" 120GB SATA SSD and I have another 1TB HDD connected to it. With overclock and both drives connected i didn't notice any power issues, so the stock power supply looks decent.

- I run Plex server on it. Works great for 1080p direct play. Haven't really tried transcoding or doing multiple streams, but this could be a great addition for a living room, running Plex and emulators. I know the regular RPi is smaller and could do the same thing.

- I haven't opened it yet, but I've seen some videos and I think it may be possible to squeeze an internal M.2 drive in there. I already have the usb to m.2 adapter and I am waiting for the SSD to arrive.

- Mini HDMI ports don't bother me at all. I do miss the 3.5mm audio jack and media keys on the keyboard (at least volume up/down/mute). It was PITA to set up triggerhappy for someone who is not very familiar with linux.

Overall, a great little machine. I am trying to think of reasons why I need a few more :)
I think what could help, is replace the dual sided tape/thermal tape on the cpu of the pi 400, with thermal paste.
And a little 30-50mm by 10mm fan to mainly cool the board next to the cpu, having some of that air pass by the edges of the cpu.
Can't do much better than that.
Why does the cooling needs help? According to the post you quote, even when overclocked to 2.2GHz, running full tilt, it doesn't go above 70degC. That perfectly fine. A fan would just use more power for no additional benefit.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

Rudolf
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:29 am

X-Gen wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:16 am
And a little 30-50mm by 10mm fan to mainly cool the board next to the cpu, having some of that air pass by the edges of the cpu.
Can't do much better than that.
Please, No! No fan in Pi, I love the way it works quiet.

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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:16 pm

karrika wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:31 am
aBUGSworstnightmare wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:41 am
Eben confirmed in the blog that it's possible to swap the keyboard (entire top portion) of a stock RPI keyboard with the Pi400 keyboard
Wonderful! I did order a Swedish Raspberry pi keyboard just to swap it with the Pi 400 UK one. Both items should arrive shortly.

You should really have a Pi 400 with a Swedish keyboard for the Finnish/Swedish market.
I'm going to have to try that too, though with the US layout when it is back in stock. If your shipment arrives soon please post a few words about the process and if there are any steps that need special tricks. Jeff Geerling did a tear-down video of the 400 and I will watch it again.

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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:29 pm

jamesh wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:20 pm
AndyStubbs wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:00 pm
jamesh wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:18 pm
I'll pass that on - I also thought the HDMI cable was a bit short.
Not as short as the mouse cable - that barely reaches the correct position on the desk - not complaining its a cracking bit of kit but could use a little tweaking on cable lengths :)
OK, so passed it on for a possible future update. Apparently its been mentioned a few times!
Mouse cable length is just ok for me, but would perhaps be better 200mm longer. I warmed it up with the wife's hair drier ( she wouldn't let me use her GHD straighteners ) which allowed me to straighten out the concertina kinks. That made it a bit easier to use. On the Official Keyboard ( Not the Pi400 ) the usb ports are more suited to right handed mouse use, being at the opposite end.

I've just checked my Logitech M90 mouse, and the lead on that is 1.75m long. I think that's a bit extreme, and I'm planning to cut that down to 0.75m to use with a laptop with a usb port on the RHS.

Overall, I think the Raspberry Pi 400 kit is a fantastic product, just loving it.

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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:33 pm

davidcoton wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:19 pm
Monitor is 1366x768, so although it works by default (Pi runs at 1600x1200), a better picture is available by following the special RPT instructions for fixing a 1360x768 mode.
I have a couple of televisions and a laptop (running Raspberry Pi OS for x86) that are these resolutions. Could you point me to these "special RPT instructions" for fixing such a resolution mode? I was unable to find them on my own. Thanks much.

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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:43 pm

cspan wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:33 pm
davidcoton wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:19 pm
Monitor is 1366x768, so although it works by default (Pi runs at 1600x1200), a better picture is available by following the special RPT instructions for fixing a 1360x768 mode.
I have a couple of televisions and a laptop (running Raspberry Pi OS for x86) that are these resolutions. Could you point me to these "special RPT instructions" for fixing such a resolution mode? I was unable to find them on my own. Thanks much.

The tweaks only apply to Raspberry Pi 4B, CM4, 400. Do not apply to x86 hardware.
Take what I advise as advice not the utopian holy grail, and it is gratis !!

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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:55 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:43 pm

The tweaks only apply to Raspberry Pi 4B, CM4, 400. Do not apply to x86 hardware.
OK, thanks - but for future reference when this becomes relevant for me (buying a 4B or 400), can you point me to these special tweaks?

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23 fun Raspberry Pi 400 facts

Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:01 pm

I've compiled a list of 23 fun Raspberry Pi 400 facts - including some in this thread:

https://picockpit.com/raspberry-pi/23-f ... 400-facts/

It includes a new bonus fact I've not seen here before (yesterday): The Pi 400 still has the USB 2.0 OTG port routed to the USB C plug.

Cheers,
Max

P.S: Many thanks to all Raspberry Pi engineers who have shared background information on here & clarified things!
picockpit.com - tools to make your life with the Pi a little bit easier

cspan
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:05 pm

Seems like the most popular external storage is an SSD. They appear to have speed and (physical) size advantages. But external HDD have price, capacity, and perhaps longevity advantages. Is there any reason why an external HDD is unsuitable for a Pi 400 (or 4B) boot and OS device?

I have both slim unpowered external HDD drives, as well as a powered docking station for larger, internal HDD (it has a SATA interface). Both types would connect to Pi via USB 3.0.

thanks -

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pi3g
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:08 pm

cspan, there is no reason a hard drive would not work with the Pi 400.
SSDs have the advantage of additional speed & less power draw (for spinning up).
In case you use an external power supply, the last point doesn't really matter.
picockpit.com - tools to make your life with the Pi a little bit easier

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bensimmo
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Re: 23 fun Raspberry Pi 400 facts

Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:14 pm

pi3g wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:01 pm
I've compiled a list of 23 fun Raspberry Pi 400 facts - including some in this thread:

https://picockpit.com/raspberry-pi/23-f ... 400-facts/

It includes a new bonus fact I've not seen here before (yesterday): The Pi 400 still has the USB 2.0 OTG port routed to the USB C plug.

Cheers,
Max

P.S: Many thanks to all Raspberry Pi engineers who have shared background information on here & clarified things!
7 is missing from the #15 list too...

a nice roundup though :-)
Last edited by bensimmo on Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:18 pm

cspan wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:05 pm
Seems like the most popular external storage is an SSD. They appear to have speed and (physical) size advantages. But external HDD have price, capacity, and perhaps longevity advantages. Is there any reason why an external HDD is unsuitable for a Pi 400 (or 4B) boot and OS device?

I have both slim unpowered external HDD drives, as well as a powered docking station for larger, internal HDD (it has a SATA interface). Both types would connect to Pi via USB 3.0.

thanks -

Depends on USB3 to SSD Convertor, just do not buy one with a jmicron controller chip, you need one with a ASMedia chip:

https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2020/ ... spberry-pi

https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2020/ ... spberry-pi

etcetera etcetera...........
Take what I advise as advice not the utopian holy grail, and it is gratis !!

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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:20 pm

yes, you're right! I'll add a note about that
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karrika
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Re: 23 fun Raspberry Pi 400 facts

Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:30 pm

pi3g wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:01 pm
I've compiled a list of 23 fun Raspberry Pi 400 facts - including some in this thread:

https://picockpit.com/raspberry-pi/23-f ... 400-facts/

It includes a new bonus fact I've not seen here before (yesterday): The Pi 400 still has the USB 2.0 OTG port routed to the USB C plug.

Cheers,
Max

P.S: Many thanks to all Raspberry Pi engineers who have shared background information on here & clarified things!
Thanks! Really interesting reading.

I am still waiting for my Pi 400 but I already got the Swedish layout keyboard module. Yesterday I spent some time compiling Vulkan demos and the keyboard is much better than I expected. It is also nice to be able to connect the gaming mouse to the keyboard.

For me the most important things in Pi 400 are:
- no fan or parts wearing out. Except the keyboard of course.
- low power usage. You can even run it from Power packs for hours.
- no internal memory that gets corrupted. It is easy to swap in a clean backup disk in case something goes wrong.
- enough power for my needs
- attractive Raspi OS that seems to support all the software that matters to me
- easy connectivity through the 40 pin connector to special boards I use for retro computing and theater work
- the Pi 400 is truly portable and connects to ordinary TV's
- has enough power to keep a mini USB-SSD disk running from the USB port alone. No external powers needed.

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pi3g
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:42 pm

yes, I agree especially about
- low power usage. You can even run it from Power packs for hours.

I've somehow not thought of this particular point - but it kind of is your "keyboard to go"
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mrlinux2u
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:47 pm

For any one interested in overclocking their Pi 400, here's the settings I use (see below).

over_voltage=6
arm_freq=2200
gpu_freq=750
arm_freq_min=1800
core_freq=600

These give me a rock solid experience (temps never go above 51C even when running youtube videos or compiling apps with Lazarus) without having to set the force_turbo flag or set over_voltage over 6 (and that's with an SSD attached).

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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:01 pm

pi3g wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:42 pm
yes, I agree especially about
- low power usage. You can even run it from Power packs for hours.

I've somehow not thought of this particular point - but it kind of is your "keyboard to go"
that makes my idea of a bluetooth-keyboard boot option even better, since it sounds like it will have some reasonable runtime

Rudolf
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:20 pm

pi3g wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:08 pm
cspan, there is no reason a hard drive would not work with the Pi 400.
SSDs have the advantage of additional speed & less power draw (for spinning up).
In case you use an external power supply, the last point doesn't really matter.
I am very cautious with such general statements.

Yes, SSD don't need to spin up like hard drives.
But, in real world I found many SSD drawing substantial more power compared to the ol'e HDDs.

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