tikimojo
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon May 03, 2021 9:00 pm

Why is my rPi crashing?

Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:36 am

Hello everyone. I've got an rPi 3 B+ running raspberrypi 5.10.60-v7 and it keeps crashing.

I've got it setup to be my file server with ownCloud: https://tikimojo.com/2021/04/running-ow ... pberry-pi/

The only thing plugged into it is ethernet and power. It ran great for weeks on end until recently and now it seems to crash every day.

I haven't been able to catch what's going wrong. Is there a guide somewhere on how to debug this that I haven't found with Google?

I have noticed that after a while lxpanelctl starts using 100% of the CPU, so I've added "lxpanelctl restart" to crontab twice a day in case that will help.

LTolledo
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Re: Why is my rPi crashing?

Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:52 am

what PSU?
what microSD card?
what OS?
what media used for data?
what else are we required to guess?
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

Some people be like:
"Help me! Am drowning! But dont you dare touch me nor come near me!"

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rpdom
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Re: Why is my rPi crashing?

Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:34 am

One thing to check is to run "vcgencmd get_throttled" every now and then. If it doesn't report "throttled=0x0" then it may indicated issues.

Only "may", as it will also report any temporary issues, such as the CPUs getting warm and slowing down to help cooling. It can, however, also indicate power supply problems
Unreadable squiggle

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pi-anazazi
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Re: Why is my rPi crashing?

Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:04 pm

I don't think it's a great idea to run a cloud storage application without dedicated storage device (at least a USB-stick, better a HDD/SSD). Maybe you can watch your SD-card failing, depending on how hard you use the storage.

Would start over again. Do you need a GUI? Otherwise try the minimal image without all the GUI stuff. Take a good SD-card for OS and additional storage device for the data...
Kind regards

anazazi

tikimojo
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon May 03, 2021 9:00 pm

Re: Why is my rPi crashing?

Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:34 pm

The power supply: I've got a case, heat sinks and fan. I did my best to power it down during the hottest days this summer.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BT ... 29f69a838e

The MicroSD is a SanDisk Ultra 64gb.

As noted in my post it's running Raspberry Pi OS raspberrypi 5.10.60-v7.

All data is stored on the MicroSD.

What else? Beats me. If I knew I'd put it in here.
LTolledo wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:52 am
what PSU?
what microSD card?
what OS?
what media used for data?
what else are we required to guess?

tikimojo
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon May 03, 2021 9:00 pm

Re: Why is my rPi crashing?

Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:57 pm

I thought about running a separate USB drive for the data, but this is intentionally a very light-duty setup. I'm not trying to host media files.

I'm the only user. I've got three laptops and a desktop I bounce between. The files I'm hosting are almost entirely "office" files, PDF's, HTML / Python / web stuff. I could hook up a 500gig USB drive, but I'd actually prefer that I have incentive to *not* let files pile up and keep it small. Also, part of the reason for doing this on an rPi is to keep power consumption low.

Yeah, I know I don't need a GUI but it does come in handy from time to time. I've set it to boot without the GUI and we'll run that way and see if we get any different results.

pi-anazazi wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:04 pm
I don't think it's a great idea to run a cloud storage application without dedicated storage device (at least a USB-stick, better a HDD/SSD). Maybe you can watch your SD-card failing, depending on how hard you use the storage.

Would start over again. Do you need a GUI? Otherwise try the minimal image without all the GUI stuff. Take a good SD-card for OS and additional storage device for the data...

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pi-anazazi
Posts: 1001
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:22 pm
Location: EU

Re: Why is my rPi crashing?

Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:05 pm

A 64 or 128 GB USB-stick is no problem in any direction you could think of, e.g.

SanDisk Cruzer Fit CZ33 64GB USB 2.0

You could try this to see if your OS is damaged

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=291931&p=1765495#p1765196
Kind regards

anazazi

epoch1970
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Location: France

Re: Why is my rPi crashing?

Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:32 pm

I’d remove the fan. You don’t need it anyway.
"S'il n'y a pas de solution, c'est qu'il n'y a pas de problème." Les Shadoks, J. Rouxel

tikimojo
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Joined: Mon May 03, 2021 9:00 pm

Re: Why is my rPi crashing?

Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:49 pm

A common theme in this thread is a concern that using the sd card as a file system may be sub-optimal. I find this to be a bit curious.

Do the people who use an rPi as a desktop run on a USB drive? For this use case my rPi is just idle until I hit "save" or add a file from an ownCloud client. This seems to me to be far less activity for the disk system than what other people are doing.

I understand SD cards aren't the greatest thing on the planet. This setup certainly wouldn't be what I'd use to share file in a small office or business setting, but it's been pretty great for my home-office. Quite a bit better than connecting to my desktop as a regular file server through the standard channels for doing that.

It wasn't particularly easy to setup. It took quite a bit of extra work to get it installed. https://tikimojo.com/2021/04/running-ow ... pberry-pi/

I'm currently running it without the Raspberry Pi OS GUI desktop to see if I get different results. It would seem the next step would be to clone the card to a fresh card, if that doesn't do something different, to completely re-install from scratch. There's always the possibility that the Pi itself sustained some damage from our heat waves as we don't have a/c in the house. Heat shouldn't be a problem again until next summer.

I'm not expecting perfection, but it does seem like it should stay up for more than 24 hours at a time.

Here's what I get from debsums:

Code: Select all

pi@raspberrypi:~ $ sudo debsums -c
/usr/lib/chromium-browser/master_preferences
If Chromium has a problem, seems like that shouldn't affect the performance of the system as a whole.

If the preferences for Chromium are not right, I assume this suggests I should remove and re-install Chromium. Yes?
pi-anazazi wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:05 pm
A 64 or 128 GB USB-stick is no problem in any direction you could think of, e.g.

SanDisk Cruzer Fit CZ33 64GB USB 2.0

You could try this to see if your OS is damaged

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=291931&p=1765495#p1765196

tikimojo
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon May 03, 2021 9:00 pm

Re: Why is my rPi crashing?

Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:53 pm

I'm handy with the command line. No expert by any means, but I know where my towel is. I've followed other posts for looking log files for clues to what's bringing the Pi down, but haven't found anything.

Is there any particular tools for sussing out problems with the file system?

Feels like a long shot though.

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pi-anazazi
Posts: 1001
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Location: EU

Re: Why is my rPi crashing?

Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:19 am

Output of debsums indicates you changed preferences. Nothing to worry about.

What do you mean by "keeps crashing"? Monitor plugged in and system freezes? No ssh? Via cable? Or wifi? Enable permanent logging (for short on SD-card, to use longer consider USB-stick). But not in any case you will identify the culprit.

You could change power supply and SD-card to exclude hardware failure.

Debugging is pain...
Kind regards

anazazi

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
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Re: Why is my rPi crashing?

Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:54 am

tikimojo wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:49 pm
A common theme in this thread is a concern that using the sd card as a file system may be sub-optimal. I find this to be a bit curious.

Do the people who use an rPi as a desktop run on a USB drive? For this use case my rPi is just idle until I hit "save" or add a file from an ownCloud client. This seems to me to be far less activity for the disk system than what other people are doing.

I understand SD cards aren't the greatest thing on the planet. This setup certainly wouldn't be what I'd use to share file in a small office or business setting, but it's been pretty great for my home-office. Quite a bit better than connecting to my desktop as a regular file server through the standard channels for doing that.

It wasn't particularly easy to setup. It took quite a bit of extra work to get it installed. https://tikimojo.com/2021/04/running-ow ... pberry-pi/

I'm currently running it without the Raspberry Pi OS GUI desktop to see if I get different results. It would seem the next step would be to clone the card to a fresh card, if that doesn't do something different, to completely re-install from scratch. There's always the possibility that the Pi itself sustained some damage from our heat waves as we don't have a/c in the house. Heat shouldn't be a problem again until next summer.

I'm not expecting perfection, but it does seem like it should stay up for more than 24 hours at a time.

Here's what I get from debsums:

Code: Select all

pi@raspberrypi:~ $ sudo debsums -c
/usr/lib/chromium-browser/master_preferences
If Chromium has a problem, seems like that shouldn't affect the performance of the system as a whole.

If the preferences for Chromium are not right, I assume this suggests I should remove and re-install Chromium. Yes?
pi-anazazi wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:05 pm
A 64 or 128 GB USB-stick is no problem in any direction you could think of, e.g.

SanDisk Cruzer Fit CZ33 64GB USB 2.0

You could try this to see if your OS is damaged

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=291931&p=1765495#p1765196
I've never used anything but SD cards and official power supplies* and have no problems at all, run times in months if I need them to run that long. So if you are seeing issues, there is something wrong, rather than something "sub-optimal".


* except in one case when testing the Pi4 prior to launch I used an Anker PS as we hadn't yet built our own.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

LTolledo
Posts: 6010
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:29 am
Location: Anime Heartland

Re: Why is my rPi crashing?

Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:50 am

this RPi4B-4GB is used as a desktop (one might say a "daily driver")

with dual 10" monitor, both 12v powered
SSD boot using a non-mainstream brand SSD (Zheino) 120GB, RPiOS32 Desktop Full version, fully updated.
SSD is connected to RPi4B's USB3.0 port via Eluteng SATA to USB3.0 "clone" (with rounded USB plug, confirmed ASM1153E chipset)
a bus powered 4-port USB3.0 port is connected to the RPi4B's other USB3.0 port
a USB powered speaker is connected one of the USB 2.0 port
a bus powered USB KM switch is connected to the other USB2.0 port (so all USB ports are populated)
this is connected to the network via Ethernet LAN cable

the RPi is powered from 12v power brick (shared by the 2 x 10" monitors) via a MP1584EN buck converter, feeding power to header pins 2 and 4 (5.05v) and pin 6 (Gnd)
the RPi has a heasink with 5v fan, but gets its power from the buck converter

I usually run this 60hrs hours straight during the weekends, at an ambient of 28C to 30C
during the weekdays, about 12hours straight, same ambient
usually Chrome with 13 tabs, which includes watching YouTube, monitoring earthquake status, RPi forum,
VNC and/or ssh to other RPi, among others
at times I would plug USB pen/thumbdrives (at most 2) to the connected USB3.0 hub

seems pretty "loaded"?

This RPi4B-4GB "daily driver" desktop setup does not crash......
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

Some people be like:
"Help me! Am drowning! But dont you dare touch me nor come near me!"

epoch1970
Posts: 7086
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 9:33 am
Location: France

Re: Why is my rPi crashing?

Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:13 am

tikimojo wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:49 pm
There's always the possibility that the Pi itself sustained some damage from our heat waves as we don't have a/c in the house. Heat shouldn't be a problem again until next summer.
At which temperature do you fear the Pi will melt? 40°C?
Parts of the Pi are rated to work over 100°C.
According to my experience, even the cheapest bits of plastic you can find on the board don't mind an ambiant temperature of 60°C. Neither does the SD.

Heat has the best chance of damaging your Pi if you wire improperly a fan and/or the fan you're using is a piece of junk.
You don't need a fan unless the Pi is used for gaming or compiling or mining all day. And even in that case the fan is useful to improve performance under load, not to protect the machine from physical damage.
"S'il n'y a pas de solution, c'est qu'il n'y a pas de problème." Les Shadoks, J. Rouxel

tikimojo
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon May 03, 2021 9:00 pm

Re: Why is my rPi crashing?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:02 pm

So I changed the Pi so it would boot to the command line instead of the Raspberry Pi OS default GUI.

It's now been up for 8 straight days without any problems. So it would seem the crashing issue must have something to do with the GUI. Since I don't really *need* the GUI the easy fix is to just let it run as is and not start the desktop unless I actually need it for something.

If you're not familiar with ownCloud(.com) the way it works is your desktops are clients. When a desktop adds/removes/changes a file, that change is mirrored to the ownCloud server, which then pushes the changes to all the other connected clients.

I had previously been using an old desktop as a traditional home-office file server, but this is actually *faster* as your file activity on your desktop files you're using don't need to go across the network for reads.

If you had more than a small handful of users and/or lots of big files, you'd want more substantial hardware, but for my use-case it's been great.

I can always upscale it to an external drive and a more powerful Pi if/when the need comes up.

Thanks for all your input, everyone.

Here's the install instructions, should anyone need them: https://tikimojo.com/2021/04/running-ow ... pberry-pi/
tikimojo wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:57 pm
I thought about running a separate USB drive for the data, but this is intentionally a very light-duty setup. I'm not trying to host media files.

I'm the only user. I've got three laptops and a desktop I bounce between. The files I'm hosting are almost entirely "office" files, PDF's, HTML / Python / web stuff. I could hook up a 500gig USB drive, but I'd actually prefer that I have incentive to *not* let files pile up and keep it small. Also, part of the reason for doing this on an rPi is to keep power consumption low.

Yeah, I know I don't need a GUI but it does come in handy from time to time. I've set it to boot without the GUI and we'll run that way and see if we get any different results.

pi-anazazi wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:04 pm
I don't think it's a great idea to run a cloud storage application without dedicated storage device (at least a USB-stick, better a HDD/SSD). Maybe you can watch your SD-card failing, depending on how hard you use the storage.

Would start over again. Do you need a GUI? Otherwise try the minimal image without all the GUI stuff. Take a good SD-card for OS and additional storage device for the data...

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