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mahjongg
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Re: Pi4 && Aeotec Z-Wave USB Stick Gen5

Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:29 pm

jdb wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:06 am
This device has some very non-compliant behaviours.

- On initial connect, it pulls D+ to +5V through a strong pull-up. After 20ms, the pull strength drops which results in D+ dropping to about 4.1V. This is a gross violation of the USB electrical spec.

- If I plug this device into either the Pi 4 or a USB3.0 hub with VIA chipset, the 20ms pull to 5V appears to trigger some sort of protection within the upstream port - both D+ and D- lines end up at >3.3V (SE1) and a device attach does not occur. Plugging a different device into the same port results in an attach event, so it appears the behaviour is temporary.

I can get it into a state where the device does actually attach, by forcing D- to 0V temporarily. In this state, the D- line floats up to 3v3 after every packet so it looks like the upstream port 10k pull-down resistor(s) aren't enabled.

My opinion is that it's not a fault of the USB chip to refuse to talk to a device that could potentially fry the port logic.
so its the devices problem, not the RPI

jamesh
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Re: Pi4 && Aeotec Z-Wave USB Stick Gen5

Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:14 pm

SignOver wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:57 pm
jdb wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:06 am
This device has some very non-compliant behaviours.

- On initial connect, it pulls D+ to +5V through a strong pull-up. After 20ms, the pull strength drops which results in D+ dropping to about 4.1V. This is a gross violation of the USB electrical spec.

- If I plug this device into either the Pi 4 or a USB3.0 hub with VIA chipset, the 20ms pull to 5V appears to trigger some sort of protection within the upstream port - both D+ and D- lines end up at >3.3V (SE1) and a device attach does not occur. Plugging a different device into the same port results in an attach event, so it appears the behaviour is temporary.

I can get it into a state where the device does actually attach, by forcing D- to 0V temporarily. In this state, the D- line floats up to 3v3 after every packet so it looks like the upstream port 10k pull-down resistor(s) aren't enabled.

My opinion is that it's not a fault of the USB chip to refuse to talk to a device that could potentially fry the port logic.
Soo.. not to be sarcastic or anything, but are we sure that raspberry 4 is following USB specifications?
https://hackaday.com/2019/07/16/explori ... -in-depth/
Bit late replying, and since you only made one post I expect you are long gone, but the USB-C power issue is entirely unrelated to this issue, which is clearly caused by the third party device behaving non-compliantly.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

SignOver
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Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:54 pm

Re: Pi4 && Aeotec Z-Wave USB Stick Gen5

Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:22 pm

jamesh wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:14 pm
Bit late replying, and since you only made one post I expect you are long gone, but the USB-C power issue is entirely unrelated to this issue, which is clearly caused by the third party device behaving non-compliantly.
I am long gone, but if we can say that Aeotec's device is behaving non-compliantly (or not following the usb specifications) then we can also say that the raspberry 4 is behaving non-compliantly (or not following the usb specifications) (related to the usb-c power issue), thus the relation between those 2 issues is that both of them behaving non-compliantly (or not following the usb specifications). (Albeit not the same part of the specifications of course).

jamesh
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Re: Pi4 && Aeotec Z-Wave USB Stick Gen5

Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:35 pm

SignOver wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:22 pm
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:14 pm
Bit late replying, and since you only made one post I expect you are long gone, but the USB-C power issue is entirely unrelated to this issue, which is clearly caused by the third party device behaving non-compliantly.
I am long gone, but if we can say that Aeotec's device is behaving non-compliantly (or not following the usb specifications) then we can also say that the raspberry 4 is behaving non-compliantly (or not following the usb specifications) (related to the usb-c power issue), thus the relation between those 2 issues is that both of them behaving non-compliantly (or not following the usb specifications). (Albeit not the same part of the specifications of course).
Indeed, the USB power issue is caused by a non-compliant USB implementation (which annoyingly worked fine on every single power supply we tested with - and that was quite a few). On the other hand, firstly, the USB issue cannot cause a HW failure (i.e. it just won't work when using a PD cable), whereas this Zwave issue can (i.e. it can actually break the device it is plugged in to).

Secondly, we are fixing the USB power issue. Zwave (AFAIK) don't give a damn that their design is flawed, refusing to even accept there is a fault.

Thirdly, and a bit off topic, the chip that provides the USB on the Pi4 is a third party device (unlike previous models), any issues with it are down to them (VLI), and we do get occasional bug fixes for it.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

renice123
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Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:56 pm

Re: Pi4 && Aeotec Z-Wave USB Stick Gen5

Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:39 pm

There is a saying - avaricious pays twice.
The number of error messages for these devices is so great that I can’t understand why people buy such hardware. Is this a desire to save?
The first request is indicative.
Aeotec Z-Wave Stick problem site: www.domoticz.com - results 2430
You can probably devote a lifetime to solving the problem of why Aeotec engineers are so bad. But I would not do that.
With the same success, you can probably make the iron fork work)
Can't find a normal alternative to a clearly malfunctioning device?

Jano59
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:25 pm

Re: Pi4 && Aeotec Z-Wave USB Stick Gen5

Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:33 pm

Almost got a "downer" reading this. But then I ")(//("#&¤(" f*ck no!!! :oops:

So I attached a small mini USB Hub with Power, attached the Aeon labs zw090 z stick gen5 eu and <drum effects> it worked right away. :D

Phefff!
Just traveled from RP3+SDcard to RP4+SDcard+SSD disk, from "native" Hass.io on the RP3 to Raspberry PI w. Docker. migrated my Home Assistant to the new RP4 in docker... Everything worked... except the Aeon..
But the USB hub did it. :mrgreen:

Thought i'd share, so created a user acc, just for that.

mixedup
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:44 pm

Re: Pi4 && Aeotec Z-Wave USB Stick Gen5

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:03 pm

Which would be the next most popular Z-Wave USB stick after the aeotek?

cwoodhouse
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:58 pm

Re: Pi4 && Aeotec Z-Wave USB Stick Gen5

Sat May 30, 2020 4:09 pm

Thank you guys. After hours of hair-pulling, the self powered usb hub in-between RPi4 and Aeotec Gen 5 USB Stick worked !!
This is a big issue since lot's of people have this stick.
Repeating the question of the previous post, what is the next best ZWave antenna ?

guido09
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:13 pm

Re: Pi4 && Aeotec Z-Wave USB Stick Gen5

Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:20 pm

Hi, like so many of you, i had also the same problems with the Aeon stick and a Rpi 4.
I went for an small USB 2.0 hub and that worked fine for a couple of months.

Untill last week, after i updated the Pi, the Aeon stick wasn't recognized anymore.
At first i tried every usb port of the hub and on the Pi. No succes.
Tested the stick on a pc and that was ok.

Couple of days ago i bought another USB 2.0 hub with external power and PRESTO that did the trick! :D
The aeon stick was immediatly recognized and all works fine again.

JaymerJaymer
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:35 pm

Re: Pi4 && Aeotec Z-Wave USB Stick Gen5

Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:40 pm

So the simplest solution for me is to return the z-stick I just bought and buy that combo zigbee / ZWave stick.
I don’t have time to be screwing around with this for a $40 usb stick.

kmpm
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:14 pm

Re: Pi4 && Aeotec Z-Wave USB Stick Gen5

Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:32 am

From the looks of their tech spec ( https://aeotec.freshdesk.com/support/so ... fications- ) there probably are sticks around that might be changed.
It looks as if there are 3 different versions. Just have to figure out how to get the one that I want.
Z-Stick Gen5
RPi4 compatible: Not without unpowered USB Adapter
Recommended USB Adapter with RPi4: Sabrent or Anker unpowered USB hub (2.0 or 3.0)

New Z-Stick Gen5
RPi4 compatible: Yes

Z-Stick Gen5+
RPi4 compatible: Yes

liebigraspi
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:28 am

Re: Pi4 && Aeotec Z-Wave USB Stick Gen5

Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:40 am

I have one question regarding this issue:

I am running Openhab2 on a Raspberry Pi4 with this Z-Wave-Dongle:

https://www.amazon.de/Cyrus-SmartHome-G ... B0716RFG38

It is not from Aeotec and also "technically" different because it has no battery for example, but using lsusb it reports as:

Code: Select all

Bus 001 Device 005: ID 0658:0200 Sigma Designs, Inc. Aeotec Z-Stick Gen5 (ZW090) - UZB
Does anyone know if this device is also affected by the USB wiring problem? I ask because in general this stick is running fine, e.g. it is discovered and works with Openhab2 on the Pi4.

But sometimes (usually once in 2 or 3 days), the stick is reported as "Offline" in Openhab2 and "jumps" to another port, e.g. it was configured on /dev/ttyACM0 and I have to reconfigure it to /dev/ttyACM1 or reboot the system to make everythig work again.

Can this issue also be related to that non-conform wiring? Or does this really only apply to the Aeotec stick?

BlinderHahn
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:25 am

Re: Pi4 && Aeotec Z-Wave USB Stick Gen5

Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:44 am

Obviously, I have a similar problem like you, liebigraspi ...

I'm using a Pi4 and an Aeotec USB stick. In order to get it working, I bought a USB hub several weeks ago.
Now it works for 3 to 4 days but then the device is not available anymore.
When it is broken Openhab tells me:

Code: Select all

Status: OFFLINE - COMMUNICATION_ERROR Serial Error: Port /dev/ttyACM1 does not exist
But after a reboot everything works fine again.

Today it is broken again …

Code: Select all

dmesg -T | grep ttyACM
[Wed Jul 29 21:12:26 2020] cdc_acm 1-1.3:1.0: ttyACM0: USB ACM device
[Wed Jul 29 21:12:26 2020] cdc_acm 1-1.2.1:1.0: ttyACM1: USB ACM device
[Sat Aug  1 11:38:46 2020] cdc_acm 1-1.2.1:1.0: ttyACM2: USB ACM device
I’m not really familiar with linux, but has anyone an idea, why the port might switch after several days …
And why is the USB ACM device listed twice in the log after a reboot? Is it because of the USB hub?
Thanks & Regards

liamstears
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:59 am

Re: Pi4 && Aeotec Z-Wave USB Stick Gen5

Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:01 am

Anyone wanting answers or a proper fix please look at my post over at the home assistant forums: https://community.home-assistant.io/t/s ... pi4/218405

liebigraspi
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:28 am

Re: Pi4 && Aeotec Z-Wave USB Stick Gen5

Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:56 pm

BlinderHahn wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:44 am
Obviously, I have a similar problem like you, liebigraspi ...

I'm using a Pi4 and an Aeotec USB stick. In order to get it working, I bought a USB hub several weeks ago.
Now it works for 3 to 4 days but then the device is not available anymore.
When it is broken Openhab tells me:

Code: Select all

Status: OFFLINE - COMMUNICATION_ERROR Serial Error: Port /dev/ttyACM1 does not exist
But after a reboot everything works fine again.

In the meantime I went to a Z-WAVE Stick from Everspring. It shows a similar behaviour, every 3-4 days it "disappeared" and then showed back on a different /dev/ttyACMx port (usually it jumps from ACM0 to ACM1).

What I did is using a so called UDEV-rule which assures that the Stick is mounted to the same port which is actually a symlink created automatically. Here is what I did:

As root:

Do a lsusb:

Code: Select all

# lsusb
# Bus 001 Device 008: ID 0658:0200 Sigma Designs, Inc. Aeotec Z-Stick Gen5 (ZW090) - UZB
Note the ID of the Sigma Design stick, you will need it later.

Now:

Code: Select all

# cd /etc/udev/rules.d

# nano 99-usb-serial.rules
The file should contain the following:

Code: Select all

SUBSYSTEM=="tty", ATTRS{idVendor}=="0658", ATTRS{idProduct}=="0200" SYMLINK+="ttyACM0.ZWA"
Save the file, and restart the daemon:

Code: Select all

# /etc/init.d/udev restart
Now if you plugin your device, you get a entry like the following:

Code: Select all

#cd /dev
#ls -al
# lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root           7 Aug 18 20:05 ttyACM0.ZWA -> ttyACM0
The cool thing is: Now it does't matter anymore what ttyACMx the stick is connected to, it will always be available under /dev/ttyACM0.ZWA

Now you go to openhab and configure this as the port to use, and your stick will stay online even if it disconnects and reconnects.

RTDragon
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:37 am

Re: Pi4 && Aeotec Z-Wave USB Stick Gen5

Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:54 am

Does anyone know if the Aeotec Gen5+ still has the same issue on the raspberry pi 4?

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