UPRHome
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:44 pm

Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:23 pm

I usually get RPi 4B 2GB boards and load with LibreELEC but have noticed that ever since the latest hardware revision (b03114 - Rev 1.4) that the devices are not stable. During operations involving playing IPTV or reloading channels, the board will often freeze. When resetting or reloading the OS they will go "blackscreen" and be unrecoverable. I have cross-checked with a series of micro SD cards and there isn't a problem with the SD cards themselves. When I try a "blackscreened" unit's SD card on another board, it is fine. Return it to the original board and it is still blackscreen. This only seems to be happening only with the latest 1.4 hardware revision (v1.1 and 1.2 are fine) AND it is only happening with 4B 2GB boards. My provider (Buy-a-Pi) suggested that maybe there's a problem with the LibreELEC OS with regards to a conflict on the new hardware revision. I do not believe this is so because the 4B 4GB boards with a hardware revision of 1.4 seem work perfectly fine.
Can anyone offer a suggestion?

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 31363
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:17 pm

The 1.4 board needs an updated firmware and IIRC bootloader, so it suggests LibreElec have not yet updated their distro.

edit: Of course they come from the factory with the correct bootloader...Doh.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

UPRHome
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:44 pm

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:56 pm

jamesh wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:17 pm
The 1.4 board needs an updated firmware and IIRC bootloader, so it suggests LibreElec have not yet updated their distro.

edit: Of course they come from the factory with the correct bootloader...Doh.

So why would the new hardware revision (b03114 - ver 1.4) work correctly with a 4GB memory module and not the 2GB memory using the same OS?

ejolson
Posts: 9774
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:25 pm

UPRHome wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:56 pm
jamesh wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:17 pm
The 1.4 board needs an updated firmware and IIRC bootloader, so it suggests LibreElec have not yet updated their distro.

edit: Of course they come from the factory with the correct bootloader...Doh.

So why would the new hardware revision (b03114 - ver 1.4) work correctly with a 4GB memory module and not the 2GB memory using the same OS?
What's the RAM part number on the 2GB version? Has it changed? Is it still the same Micron chip as before?

UPRHome
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:44 pm

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:20 pm

Okay, it looks different than the one I saw pictured
Original found at https://www.canadarobotix.com/blogs/how ... -do-i-have
Image

I also found this one thepihutt:
Image

Here's the newest one that I have now:
Image

drgeoff
Posts: 13129
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:39 pm

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:16 pm

The first picture shows a RAM chip sold by Micron.

The second and third pictures are both of the same model of Samsung RAM chip.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

ejolson
Posts: 9774
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:50 am

drgeoff wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:16 pm
The first picture shows a RAM chip sold by Micron.

The second and third pictures are both of the same model of Samsung RAM chip.
Maybe the RAM timings have changed in an unknown way and the factory-shipped firmware needs polished for stability.

UPRHome
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:44 pm

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:44 pm

ejolson wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:50 am
drgeoff wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:16 pm
The first picture shows a RAM chip sold by Micron.

The second and third pictures are both of the same model of Samsung RAM chip.
Maybe the RAM timings have changed in an unknown way and the factory-shipped firmware needs polished for stability.
Well I have suspected that the culprit here is the RAM module, and since yesterday, I have found yet another differently marked/identified RAM chip.
I have noted before that the RAM obviously works, but like you said it's not "stable" or possibly just not stable under some significant load/function.
So the question is, to whom does one direct this issue to get it sorted out?

ejolson
Posts: 9774
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:27 pm

UPRHome wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:44 pm
ejolson wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:50 am
drgeoff wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:16 pm
The first picture shows a RAM chip sold by Micron.

The second and third pictures are both of the same model of Samsung RAM chip.
Maybe the RAM timings have changed in an unknown way and the factory-shipped firmware needs polished for stability.
Well I have suspected that the culprit here is the RAM module, and since yesterday, I have found yet another differently marked/identified RAM chip.
I have noted before that the RAM obviously works, but like you said it's not "stable" or possibly just not stable under some significant load/function.
So the question is, to whom does one direct this issue to get it sorted out?
Trying a new installation of the officially supported OS is a typical first step in tracking down hardware problems. My suggestion is load Raspberry Pi OS on another SD card and see if it experiences crashes in a similar way. If it still crashes, that will attract more attention here.

If the official OS doesn't crash, then that indicates LibreElect needs to update their image to support the newest hardware. Do you know whether LibreElect overclocks the Pi 4B by default?
Last edited by ejolson on Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 31363
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:32 pm

Indeed, get the very latest Raspberry Pi OS (via Raspberry Pi imager) and try that out. Make sure you update it after first install just be sure.

If it is still flaky after that, then you could try overvolting a little to see if that helps. If it doesn't, then return the device as faulty.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

wewillsee
Authorised Reseller
Authorised Reseller
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 2:21 pm

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:05 pm

jamesh wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:32 pm
Indeed, get the very latest Raspberry Pi OS (via Raspberry Pi imager) and try that out. Make sure you update it after first install just be sure.

If it is still flaky after that, then you could try overvolting a little to see if that helps. If it doesn't, then return the device as faulty.
Ian here from BuyaPi.ca. Yes, we always test boards with Raspberry Pi OS, and most of the boards that Randal has had issues with and returned to us tested fine with Pi OS. We also concluded that there is an issue with LibreELEC, but they have not been responsive to Randal's inquiries. He is a commercial customer, so this is a significant problem for him.

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 31363
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:08 pm

So, it would appear that LibreElec have not updated the boot folder with the latest firmware.

Have you tried copying the latest firmware (start*.elf and fixup*.dat) in to the boot folder on a failing LibreELEC installation?
You can download the firmware files from the following location:

https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware ... stable.zip

This zip file contains a number of different items, but the ones we are interested in at this stage are in the boot folder. The firmware files have names of the form start*.elf and their associated support files fixup*.dat.

The basic principle is to copy the required start and fixup files from this zip file to replace the same named files on the destination operation system image. The exact process will depend on how the operating system has been set up, but as an example, this is how it would be done on a Raspberry Pi OS image.

1. Extract or open the zip file so you can access the required files.
2. Open up the boot folder on the destination OS image (this could be on an SD card, or a disk based copy).
3. Determine which start.elf and fixup.dat files are present on the destination OS image. 4. Copy those files from the zip archive to the destination image.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

zuniw
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu May 20, 2021 6:52 am

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:38 am

I am having issues with the 4B 1.4 in that LibreElec 9.2 just doesn't boot on it.

I've tried copying start.elf and fixup.dat from the github zip file, but now the green LED blinks 4 times slowly and then 4 times rapidly; and the Pi doesn't boot.

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 27225
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:40 pm

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:41 am

zuniw wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:38 am
I am having issues with the 4B 1.4 in that LibreElec 9.2 just doesn't boot on it.

I've tried copying start.elf and fixup.dat from the github zip file, but now the green LED blinks 4 times slowly and then 4 times rapidly; and the Pi doesn't boot.

Does LibreElec 10.x Beta function AOK* ?

https://libreelec.tv/2021/06/libreelec- ... 10-0-beta5

https://libreelec.tv/raspberry-pi-4



It is totally down to the LibreElec Developers, it is after all their issue and their Operating System, it will get no fixes here whatsoever, only suggestions:

https://forum.libreelec.tv



RPT / RPF ONLY support Raspberry Pi Operating System ;)


* they are changing the SoC on the 4B to the same revision as the 400, hence why you will likely need LE10 for full support
Take what I advise as advice not the utopian holy grail, and it is gratis !!

zuniw
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu May 20, 2021 6:52 am

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:20 am

> It is totally down to the LibreElec Developers

They're unfortunately not interested in fixing it for LE 9.2, and 10 doesn't have a stable release.

Oh well, thanks anyway, we'll just have to wait I guess :)

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 31363
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:28 am

zuniw wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:38 am
I am having issues with the 4B 1.4 in that LibreElec 9.2 just doesn't boot on it.

I've tried copying start.elf and fixup.dat from the github zip file, but now the green LED blinks 4 times slowly and then 4 times rapidly; and the Pi doesn't boot.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... arnings.md

You may have copied the wrong files?
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

cleverca22
Posts: 6317
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:33 pm

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:26 am

jamesh wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:28 am
zuniw wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:38 am
I am having issues with the 4B 1.4 in that LibreElec 9.2 just doesn't boot on it.

I've tried copying start.elf and fixup.dat from the github zip file, but now the green LED blinks 4 times slowly and then 4 times rapidly; and the Pi doesn't boot.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... arnings.md

You may have copied the wrong files?
yeah, pi4 needs start4.elf and fixup4.dat, if both are missing, the bootloader will load the start.elf file, which is for a different model, which perfectly explains that blink pattern

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 27225
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:40 pm

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:41 pm

.
Additional information for future readers:


As of July 2021 the Stable LibreElec release for the RPi 4B release has Kernel 4.19.x, whereas Raspberry Pi Trading have for some time offered Stable Kernel 5.10.x along with updated Firmware to support updated RPi 4B as well as the RPi 400.


Therefore if you have a RPi 4B / 400 it is prudent to run the Beta LibreElec release which has Kernel 5.10.x..

Within the next 12 months this will become the Stable Supported release and where all development is focused (alongside eventually supporting RPi 2B and later) as it incorporates the Stable Kodi 19.x MediaCentre Software.

https://libreelec.tv/raspberry-pi-4

https://libreelec.tv/2021/07/libreelec-matrix-10-0-rc1

https://kodi.tv/article/kodi-matrix-19-1-release

https://forum.libreelec.tv/thread/22538 ... post145964

.
Last edited by fruitoftheloom on Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Take what I advise as advice not the utopian holy grail, and it is gratis !!

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 31363
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:43 pm

I suspect they will need to update their current image fairly soon, as 4B's are hitting the channel that will need the latest firmware due to the newer C0 stepping. Waiting for the beta to release may well mean a lot of people having a bad experience.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 27225
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:40 pm

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:50 pm

jamesh wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:43 pm
I suspect they will need to update their current image fairly soon, as 4B's are hitting the channel that will need the latest firmware due to the newer C0 stepping. Waiting for the beta to release may well mean a lot of people having a bad experience.

Whilst I wholeheartedly agree, it seems that they do not have the *manpower* according to various information I have gleaned from various sources.

At this time a RPi 3B+ / LibreElec 9.2.8 seems to be the sweet spot, unfortunately :cry:
Take what I advise as advice not the utopian holy grail, and it is gratis !!

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 31363
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:54 pm

Surely its simply a copy of the right firmware to the boot folder....but I guess they need to package it.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 27225
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:40 pm

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:04 pm

jamesh wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:54 pm
Surely its simply a copy of the right firmware to the boot folder....but I guess they need to package it.

They also *really* need to update 9.2.8 to the 5.10.x Kernel as well as the updated firmware, and apply kernel updates to all the releases for the RPi various models supported, considering the 9.2.x family will be the final release supporting BCM2835 SoC.

It is a question of whether or not the developers want to throw resources at the 9.2.x family, I would personally say this is more important than Kodi 19.x considering how many RPis are running LE.....
Take what I advise as advice not the utopian holy grail, and it is gratis !!

trejan
Posts: 4742
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:28 pm

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:05 pm

jamesh wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:43 pm
4B's are hitting the channel that will need the latest firmware due to the newer PMIC.
Is there any way of identifying a v1.4 with the newer PMIC?

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 31363
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:07 pm

trejan wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:05 pm
jamesh wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:43 pm
4B's are hitting the channel that will need the latest firmware due to the newer PMIC.
Is there any way of identifying a v1.4 with the newer PMIC?
Sorry, not PMIC, it's a new C0 stepping that needs newer firmware, but its the same rev of board I believe. Think the PMIC was on the Pi400? Got my wires crossed.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

trejan
Posts: 4742
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:28 pm

Re: Issue with Latest Hardware Revision 1.4 for 4B boards

Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:11 pm

jamesh wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:07 pm
Sorry, not PMIC, it's a new C0 stepping that needs newer firmware, but its the same rev of board I believe. Think the PMIC was on the Pi400? Got my wires crossed.
Ah. That makes sense. Thanks.

Return to “Troubleshooting”