nimp0u
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RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:23 pm

Hi,

i cant find any documentation on the RPi2... I'm looking for a Schematic, Pinout (table) and/or a general hardware documentation.

Thx in advance and kind regards,
Dejan

jamesh
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:26 pm

The schematic is not yet available, but the HW docs are pretty much the same as the 2835 device, so use those datasheets. The GPIO pinouts are the same as the B+.
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klricks
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:51 pm

Still waiting for a full schematic for the B+
Unless specified otherwise my response is based on the latest and fully updated RPi OS Bullseye w/ Desktop OS.

nimp0u
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:48 am

As I primarily need the pinout I am happy with this information. THX!

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mahjongg
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:30 am

klricks wrote:Still waiting for a full schematic for the B+
is there anything specific you want to know? maybe i can be of service.

cptdodgerm
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:22 pm

Do not give a schematic out, because we all know what will happen. Other companies will bring out fakes or very inferior copies

mckenzba
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:44 pm

cptdodgerm wrote:Do not give a schematic out, because we all know what will happen. Other companies will bring out fakes or very inferior copies
I really don't understand this attitude when we have a device created by a non-profit that is intended to be tinkered with and learned from. If anyone wants to (and has for that matter - odroid-c1/banana pi) create a device that is a raspberry pi "clone" or is raspberry pi-like in design then there isn't really anything stopping them from doing so regardless of whether the foundation makes schematics fully public or not. Keep in mind that none of those competing boards have anywhere near the scale of community support that the raspberry pi has so I'm doubtful that they would pose a threat to the success of the raspberry pi anytime soon. This protective mentality that I've been starting to see recently (apparently starting with the announcement of the port of a certain MS product) really irks me.

Anyhow, this post is not intended to be a persuasion to the matter - just an observation of a recent trend that I've seen. :)

cptdodgerm
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:58 pm

mckenzba wrote:
cptdodgerm wrote:Do not give a schematic out, because we all know what will happen. Other companies will bring out fakes or very inferior copies
I really don't understand this attitude when we have a device created by a non-profit that is intended to be tinkered with and learned from. If anyone wants to (and has for that matter - odroid-c1/banana pi) create a device that is a raspberry pi "clone" or is raspberry pi-like in design then there isn't really anything stopping them from doing so regardless of whether the foundation makes schematics fully public or not. Keep in mind that none of those competing boards have anywhere near the scale of community support that the raspberry pi has so I'm doubtful that they would pose a threat to the success of the raspberry pi anytime soon. This protective mentality that I've been starting to see recently (apparently starting with the announcement of the port of a certain MS product) really irks me.

Anyhow, this post is not intended to be a persuasion to the matter - just an observation of a recent trend that I've seen. :)
So what do you think will happen if a schematic was to be released and a company makes a near perfect 'clone' of say the Pi2 and sold it for £5. Do you think buyers are still going to rush for the ones sold by the official re-sellers, of course not, they will purchase the £5 units and suddenly the Pi foundation becomes a bankrupt one because no one is buying their unit.

klricks
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:16 am

cptdodgerm wrote:...
..
So what do you think will happen if a schematic was to be released and a company makes a near perfect 'clone' of say the Pi2 and sold it for £5. Do you think buyers are still going to rush for the ones sold by the official re-sellers, of course not, they will purchase the £5 units and suddenly the Pi foundation becomes a bankrupt one because no one is buying their unit.

They would have to clone the Broadcom SOC as well as that is only sold to the RPF. The rest of the board is easy enough to clone without a schematic.
Unless specified otherwise my response is based on the latest and fully updated RPi OS Bullseye w/ Desktop OS.

mckenzba
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:53 am

cptdodgerm wrote:So what do you think will happen if a schematic was to be released and a company makes a near perfect 'clone' of say the Pi2 and sold it for £5. Do you think buyers are still going to rush for the ones sold by the official re-sellers, of course not, they will purchase the £5 units and suddenly the Pi foundation becomes a bankrupt one because no one is buying their unit.
First off, I'm highly doubtful that any company would be able to make a near-perfect replica of a Pi2 unless they were able to persuade Broadcom to sell them the BCM2836 or they went to ridiculously extreme lengths to replicate the BCM2836 (making that £5 unit cost unlikely).

Second, as I've started previously, if they really wanted to create a device that is near-identical to the raspberry pi (at least I/O-wise) then there really isn't anything stopping them from doing so right now. The raspberry pi isn't that electrically complex. And even if in the hypothetical scenario that they did manage to convince Broadcom to sell them the BCM2836 for the purpose of competing with the pi then I'm sorry but while that would be ethically and morally repulsive that is the free market at work. Unless the layout of the raspberry pi is patented, nothing is stopping a company from recreating the circuitry and slapping on a BCM2836 (*if* Broadcom would supply them those).

Of course, this is also assuming that the foundation didn't have any contractual agreements that prevented business dealings on Broadcom's part from directly undermining the foundation (this is speculation of course; I don't have evidence to confirm nor deny this).

tl;dr: Unless the foundation has made agreements with Broadcom pertaining to the foundations' well-being, what is stopping a company with competent engineers from just re-creating a near-identical clone if Broadcom was willing to just sell them the chip right now (and that's assuming a £5 unit cost is feasible)?

chateau
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:45 am

is there anything specific you want to know? maybe i can be of service.
@mahjongg, I am not the OP you were replying to but maybe you can help me as well.

I used the following information you posted in another thread to help fix my PI 2. All of the USB ports stopped working for no apparent reason and dmesg was showing ' hub 1-1:1.0: over-current change on port 2 '.
All that max_usb_current=1 does is to set GPIO38 high, which in turn turns on a FET, which connects a second 39K resistor in parallel to an existing one, on pin 5 of U13, the AP2553W6 USB power manager, lifting the current limit from 0.6A to double that (1.2A), see no possible scenario there why the PI resets because of that, except in case the gate of the FET Q4 is somehow shorted to GND. Which could be caused by a production fault. Inspect Q4, as look if there is solder shorting pins together. Also R6 (resistor mounted between gate of Q4 and GND) should be 100K not 0 Ohm. U13, Q4 and R6 should be near the USB ports.
After verifying the 39K resistor, Q4 and R6 as good, I determined that C97 had shorted to GND. This was killing 5 Volts needed to power any USB device plugged in. I removed C97 from the board and the problem went away and all 4 USB ports now work even without C97 in the circuit.

My question is, do you know the value of C97?
Last edited by chateau on Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:26 am, edited 5 times in total.

klricks
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:59 am

mahjongg wrote:
klricks wrote:Still waiting for a full schematic for the B+
is there anything specific you want to know? maybe i can be of service.

I would be interested in how the USB power control is implemented.
Unless specified otherwise my response is based on the latest and fully updated RPi OS Bullseye w/ Desktop OS.

jamesh
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:19 am

mckenzba wrote:
cptdodgerm wrote:Do not give a schematic out, because we all know what will happen. Other companies will bring out fakes or very inferior copies
I really don't understand this attitude when we have a device created by a non-profit that is intended to be tinkered with and learned from. If anyone wants to (and has for that matter - odroid-c1/banana pi) create a device that is a raspberry pi "clone" or is raspberry pi-like in design then there isn't really anything stopping them from doing so regardless of whether the foundation makes schematics fully public or not. Keep in mind that none of those competing boards have anywhere near the scale of community support that the raspberry pi has so I'm doubtful that they would pose a threat to the success of the raspberry pi anytime soon. This protective mentality that I've been starting to see recently (apparently starting with the announcement of the port of a certain MS product) really irks me.

Anyhow, this post is not intended to be a persuasion to the matter - just an observation of a recent trend that I've seen. :)
The Foundation has always been fairly protective over it's IP, it's not a recent thing. They have a difficult balancing act, trying to be as open as possible whilst ensuring continued income. Although note that they have never claimed a completely open platform hardware-wise, that is certainly something to aim for.

Quite often the delay in releasing details is down to manpower to prepare them, rather than any desire to keep things completely hidden. The Foundation are pretty busy, and since the demand for schematics is low, it's a fairly low priority compared with the other stuff they have on their TODO list.
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gregeric
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:41 am

klricks wrote:I would be interested in how the USB power control is implemented.
There's some info in this thread and the threads linked to inside it.

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mahjongg
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:18 pm

chateau wrote: My question is, do you know the value of C97?
47 uF in 3216 package, as its on the 5V line I assume it 16V. This is from unofficial preliminary sources, so I cannot be 100% certain.

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mahjongg
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:25 pm

klricks wrote:
mahjongg wrote:
klricks wrote:Still waiting for a full schematic for the B+
is there anything specific you want to know? maybe i can be of service.

I would be interested in how the USB power control is implemented.
its basically this: http://www.diodes.com/datasheets/AP255x.pdf
with two 39K resistors in parallel for Rlim, of which one can be disabled using a DMG1012T n-fet. Some trickery is used so that one bi-directional GPIO line can be used to either read the error flag AND to disable the AP2553W6,

chateau
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:42 pm

mahjongg wrote:
chateau wrote: My question is, do you know the value of C97?
47 uF in 3216 package, as its on the 5V line I assume it 16V. This is from unofficial preliminary sources, so I cannot be 100% certain.
Thank you. I appreciate the help.

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Zen1
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:34 am

I too would love a schematic as I have been trying to reverse engineer parts of the pi for modification. Before I start just making educated guesses and start replacing components, I thought I would see if the moderator had any information.
So my question is:
Is L3 acting as a choke filter for Vcore? I'm looking at the bcm2835 schematics from the A and B models and I see the voltage regulation is taken care of on the chip and supplied through the VDD_OUT# pins and then goes through L5(ver 2.1).
Specifically this: http://www.raspberrypi.org/documentatio ... matics.pdf
I'm looking to remove L3 and provide my own power source so I can overvolt past the stock overvoltage settings. Do you folks think I'm targeting the correct component or have I overlooked something obvious?
I understand and accept all risk and possible outcomes of doing this, so please no naysayers.

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Zen1
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:16 am

I have renewed my interest in this topic. I'm currently removing modifications from a couple Pi's I modified for my LN2 record overclock(http://hwbot.org/benchmark/hwbot_prime/ ... nterval=20) and replacing damaged or lost components so they can be used in other projects. I plan on creating a non-official schematic from a complete teardown once I get the time, maybe by the end of the month. I'll post it on my blog when I complete it an revisit this thread to update you on my progress. I thought about creating a boardview, but I think I will probably loose interest after creating the schematics. I'm a full time engineering and computer programing student so I'm pretty busy, but if the interest is there, I may be persuaded to give it more attention.

gregeric
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:04 am

Another fragment of the RPi2/B+ full schematic has been published on the Adafruit website, the analogue audio output stage:

https://learn.adafruit.com/introducing- ... io-outputs

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PeterO
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:15 am

gregeric wrote:Another fragment of the RPi2/B+ full schematic has been published on the Adafruit website, the analogue audio output stage:

https://learn.adafruit.com/introducing- ... io-outputs
Have you seen https://www.raspberrypi.org/wp-content/ ... .2_027.pdf ? The audio output filter design hasn't changed for a while !

PeterO
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gregeric
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:24 am

Hi Peter.

Since it's Christmas: Oh yes it has.

That's the full schematic for the original model A/B. They haven't yet published the B+/2B schematics:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... /README.md

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PeterO
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:55 am

gregeric wrote:Hi Peter.
Since it's Christmas: Oh yes it has.
You sound very sure :lol: The audio output filters are identical in those two diagrams.

PeterO
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Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

gregeric
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:57 am

Scroll down the linked page. Then take your palm away from your face ;)

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PeterO
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Re: RPi2 Schematic, Pinout, Documentation

Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:01 am

gregeric wrote:Scroll down the linked page. Then take your palm away from your face ;)
Indeed ! I was just going to apologise ! :roll:

PeterO
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Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

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