gsh
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STICKY: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version feedback

Thu May 28, 2020 6:43 am

In reference to the announcement:

viewtopic.php?f=117&t=275370

Thought I'd create a thread for discussion...
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Gordon Hollingworth PhD
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bensimmo
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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Thu May 28, 2020 7:04 am

I'll give it a try later.
I also assume someone will try it on Pi2 v1.2 , I can't as I don't have one and there are not many around.

What's the plan with it, to keep it in line with the 32bit version or draw a line and spec the Pi3 as minimum and move forward leaving 32bit to run nicely on Pi3 and before since the older Pi are getting increasingly outpaced by the Desktop's needs?

Here's to getting this to work as smoothly as the 32bit version.

gsh
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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Thu May 28, 2020 7:08 am

In the long term we'll keep both running at the same level for as long as is feasible. If the technology divides us we may have to switch to some long term stable solution. But I don't expect that to happen in the next few years.

Gordon
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Gordon Hollingworth PhD
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wildfire
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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Thu May 28, 2020 7:40 am

Just so happens I've a 3b+ and 4b4 v1.1 idling around, I'll try it out on both once I get another couple of PSU's.

ETA: Scratch that, 8Gb model just ordered.
Last edited by wildfire on Thu May 28, 2020 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
E8 85 A2 40 C9 40 81 94 40 81 95 40 89 84 89 96 A3
Still NF Shirls

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rpdom
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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Thu May 28, 2020 8:15 am

While the current Zero range is still being sold, I don't see 32-bit disappearing for a while.
Unreadable squiggle

ag123
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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Thu May 28, 2020 11:08 am

thanks i may try this out, since i'm running rosetta@home which uses the 64 bits kernel. 64 bits is normally used if you need to go beyond 4GB , but apps today are being built with an assumption it would go beyond 4GB :lol:

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PeterO
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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Thu May 28, 2020 11:54 am

rpi-image seems unhappy taking image names on the command line. Seems they have to be absolute paths.

But seems to work OK ...

Code: Select all

pi@raspberrypi:~ $ uname -a 
Linux raspberrypi 5.4.42-v8+ #1319 SMP PREEMPT Wed May 20 14:18:56 BST 2020 aarch64 GNU/Linux
pi@raspberrypi:~ $ free -h 
              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
Mem:          7.6Gi       177Mi       7.2Gi        36Mi       243Mi       7.3Gi
Swap:          99Mi          0B        99Mi
pi@raspberrypi:~ $ 

PeterO
Last edited by PeterO on Thu May 28, 2020 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Discoverer of the PI2 XENON DEATH FLASH!
Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

jamesh
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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Thu May 28, 2020 11:59 am

ag123 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 11:08 am
thanks i may try this out, since i'm running rosetta@home which uses the 64 bits kernel. 64 bits is normally used if you need to go beyond 4GB , but apps today are being built with an assumption it would go beyond 4GB :lol:
You only need 64 if your process needs more than 3GB of memory, which is the limit in 32bit world. Of course, you can have multiple processes each using 3GB in 32 bit world, that works fine. Hence 32bit will work fine on the 4 and 8GB models, unless you have a specific need for >3GB in a single process.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Thu May 28, 2020 12:41 pm

This will likely seem a daft question but..

..we had a 64bit kernel for Raspbian ARMHF but it was still 32 Userland

..now we have a ARM64 OS, is it 64 Userland ?


Therefore if running Raspbian ARMHF with 64 kernel & 32 Userland, is there an update path or only a fresh install ??
Take what I advise as advice not the utopian holy grail, and it is gratis !!

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PeterO
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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Thu May 28, 2020 12:47 pm

Something is amiss in "apt land" though. Getting errors when installing openGL ES dev packages. (Reported on github).

PeterO
Discoverer of the PI2 XENON DEATH FLASH!
Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

ag123
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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Thu May 28, 2020 1:28 pm

actually 1 of the concern is if the 'old' 32 bit binaries would run :lol:
it seemed it should be possible as over in this thread
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=275398
i managed to run 64 bit apps (on 64 bits kernel) in 32 bits userland ;)

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Thu May 28, 2020 1:44 pm

ag123 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 1:28 pm
actually 1 of the concern is if the 'old' 32 bit binaries would run :lol:
it seemed it should be possible as over in this thread
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=275398
i managed to run 64 bit apps (on 64 bits kernel) in 32 bits userland ;)


Seems yet again I need more sleep, had another reading session:

But power users, who want to be able to map all 8GB into the address space of a single process, need a 64-bit userland. There are plenty of options already out there, including Ubuntu and Gentoo.

Not to be left out, today we’ve released an early beta of our own 64-bit operating system image. This contains the same set of applications and the same desktop environment that you’ll find in our regular 32-bit image, but built against the Debian arm64 port.


https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/8gb-ra ... now-at-75/



So we now have a stable ARM32 / 32 Userland OS and a Beta ARM64 / 64 Userland OS.

Be interesting to see how ARM64 would run on BCM2837 2B or 3A !!



Raspbian re-naming etal:

"raspberry pi 32-bit OS" = raspbian base userland + raspberry pi kernels (32-bit and 64-bit) + raspberry pi UI and graphics stack enhancements + raspberry pi additional software

"raspberry pi 64-bit OS" = debian arm64 base userland + raspberry pi 64-bit kernel + raspberry pi UI and graphics stack enhancements + raspberry pi additional software


viewtopic.php?f=66&t=275380&sid=1a468f2 ... d#p1668466



Last but not least another reason not to use Ubuntu Server........
Take what I advise as advice not the utopian holy grail, and it is gratis !!

gordon77
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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Thu May 28, 2020 2:28 pm

I've downloaded the 64bit beta, tried 2 cards, Sandisk Ultra 128GB and 32GB, using Pi Imager, both fail verification.

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dickon
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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Thu May 28, 2020 2:38 pm

I've downloaded it, written it to my bootserver, and, after the usual edits to /boot/cmdline.txt and /etc/fstab, now have a functioning 3B with a 64b desktop.

I've been using these things since launch in 2012, and this is the first time I've seen the desktop in the flesh...
As it is apparently board policy to disallow any criticism of anything, as it appears to criticise something is to criticise all the users of that something, I will no longer be commenting in threads which are not directly relevant to my uses of the Pi.

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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Thu May 28, 2020 2:55 pm

gordon77 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 2:28 pm
I've downloaded the 64bit beta, tried 2 cards, Sandisk Ultra 128GB and 32GB, using Pi Imager, both fail verification.
Are you sure you're using the latest version (should say v1.2 in the taskbar)
What operating system are you using?
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ag123
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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Thu May 28, 2020 3:06 pm

hi , i'm downloading it, but perhaps make a torrent out of it? at 1GB it may get popular fast hence bittorrent may help there.

gordon77
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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Thu May 28, 2020 3:08 pm

gsh wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 2:55 pm
gordon77 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 2:28 pm
I've downloaded the 64bit beta, tried 2 cards, Sandisk Ultra 128GB and 32GB, using Pi Imager, both fail verification.
Are you sure you're using the latest version (should say v1.2 in the taskbar)
What operating system are you using?
installed v1.2 now, and trying again

gordon77
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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Thu May 28, 2020 4:20 pm

gordon77 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 3:08 pm
gsh wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 2:55 pm
gordon77 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 2:28 pm
I've downloaded the 64bit beta, tried 2 cards, Sandisk Ultra 128GB and 32GB, using Pi Imager, both fail verification.
Are you sure you're using the latest version (should say v1.2 in the taskbar)
What operating system are you using?
Fixed, thanks

installed v1.2 now, and trying again

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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Thu May 28, 2020 4:26 pm

Nomenclature.... As "Raspberry Pi OS" is going to be pretty awkward to type as often as we've typed "Raspbian" (which is bad enough), I'll be using "RPiOS". If versions need to be specified, there can be "RPiOS32" and "RPiOS64". I'd welcome others joining me in this.

trejan
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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Thu May 28, 2020 4:30 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 4:26 pm
Nomenclature.... As "Raspberry Pi OS" is going to be pretty awkward to type as often as we've typed "Raspbian" (which is bad enough), I'll be using "RPiOS". If versions need to be specified, there can be "RPiOS32" and "RPiOS64". I'd welcome others joining me in this.
PiOS to go with Agnostics?

gordon77
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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Thu May 28, 2020 4:33 pm

gordon77 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 4:20 pm
gordon77 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 3:08 pm
gsh wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 2:55 pm


Are you sure you're using the latest version (should say v1.2 in the taskbar)
What operating system are you using?


installed v1.2 now, and trying again
Fixed, thanks. Maybe remind others to use v1.2.
Last edited by gordon77 on Thu May 28, 2020 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Thu May 28, 2020 4:47 pm

ag123 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 3:06 pm
hi , i'm downloading it, but perhaps make a torrent out of it? at 1GB it may get popular fast hence bittorrent may help there.
https://downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspi ... ip.torrent

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PeterO
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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 8:44 am

Is it just me ? apt update and apt upgrade seem to run noticeably faster on 64 bits (and 8Gb) .
PeterO
Discoverer of the PI2 XENON DEATH FLASH!
Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

Kendek
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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 9:02 am

PeterO wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 8:44 am
Is it just me ? apt update and apt upgrade seem to run noticeably faster on 64 bits (and 8Gb) .
PeterO
Check the /etc/apt/sources.list files; http://deb.debian.org/debian (64-bit / arm64) vs http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian (32-bit / armhf)

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Re: Raspberry Pi OS (64 bit) beta test version

Fri May 29, 2020 9:05 am

I see the 64 bit userland stuff comes directly from Debian, so that should reduce the work the RPT have to do?
Better than maintaining two repositories.

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