Mikka12
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MS Edge on Raspbian

Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:47 pm

Hi, do you know whether new Microsoft Edge browser for Linux will be available on Raspian OS? Why do I need it? It may solve some DRM issues... depending on what is implemented.

jamesh
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Re: MS Edge on Raspbian

Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:00 pm

We are not working on it. So would have to be done by a third party- perhaps MS would consider it.
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W. H. Heydt
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Re: MS Edge on Raspbian

Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:04 pm

Current versions of Edge are--basically--repackaged Chromium. Are you sure Chromium won't do what you want?

trejan
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Re: MS Edge on Raspbian

Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:07 pm

Probably not. It is x86_64 only and running it under emulation would be slow.
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:04 pm
Current versions of Edge are--basically--repackaged Chromium. Are you sure Chromium won't do what you want?
They're hoping it is bundled with Playready/Widevine DRM plugins instead of trying to extract a Widevine library from a ChromeOS image.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: MS Edge on Raspbian

Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:33 pm

trejan wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:07 pm
Probably not. It is x86_64 only and running it under emulation would be slow.
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:04 pm
Current versions of Edge are--basically--repackaged Chromium. Are you sure Chromium won't do what you want?
They're hoping it is bundled with Playready/Widevine DRM plugins instead of trying to extract a Widevine library from a ChromeOS image.
My point was that perhaps to OP could substitute Chromium (which comes with RPiOS) for the modified Chromium that is Edge.

Perhaps this https://www.theregister.com/2020/10/21/edge_linux/ article will help the OP with the situation.

Mikka12
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Re: MS Edge on Raspbian

Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:32 pm

OP would appreciate that if Microsoft Edge would pack DRM tech as it is doing on Windows, then Raspberry would become ideal Home Cinema device for me (I watch a lot of Free TV in German language which I am learning, however depending on the state of the weather :-), it either works or doesnt which makes it pretty annoying (I understand that working is dependent on which DRM broadcasters switch on).

So lets wait whether they release or not and who knows which DRM tech they will pack in.

I have tried Edge on Ubuntu and Edge there still does not pack the same DRM tech as the Windows version does.

I was trying to use Firestick TV and some other Android boxes for my use case, which have Widevine L1, however there are another issues to deal with (VPN not working properly and a lots of others).

fruitoftheloom
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Re: MS Edge on Raspbian

Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:55 pm

Mikka12 wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:32 pm
OP would appreciate that if Microsoft Edge would pack DRM tech as it is doing on Windows, then Raspberry would become ideal Home Cinema device for me (I watch a lot of Free TV in German language which I am learning, however depending on the state of the weather :-), it either works or doesnt which makes it pretty annoying (I understand that working is dependent on which DRM broadcasters switch on).

So lets wait whether they release or not and who knows which DRM tech they will pack in.

I have tried Edge on Ubuntu and Edge there still does not pack the same DRM tech as the Windows version does.

I was trying to use Firestick TV and some other Android boxes for my use case, which have Widevine L1, however there are another issues to deal with (VPN not working properly and a lots of others).

Digital Rights Media is related to Secure Platform not any specific web browser, the Raspberry Pi SBC is not classed as a "Secure Platform"


There are unofficial unsupported 3rd party workarounds, see:

https://blog.vpetkov.net/2019/07/12/net ... -chromium/
Take what I advise as advice not the utopian holy grail, and it is gratis !!

Mikka12
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Re: MS Edge on Raspbian

Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:28 pm

On Ms windows Edge is performing much better than Chromium AND Chrome as well in relation to DRM.... . That is why I am interested in it on Raspberry, so possibly there would be no need to workarounds that are not guaranteed to work for longer time periods.

That Raspberry pi is not classed As Secure Platform is the last piece missing :-). Should Pi has this classification than it would be ideal device. Now it is 80% device for me. Still the highest % from any other solutions.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: MS Edge on Raspbian

Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:49 pm

Mikka12 wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:28 pm
On Ms windows Edge is performing much better than Chromium AND Chrome as well in relation to DRM.... . That is why I am interested in it on Raspberry, so possibly there would be no need to workarounds that are not guaranteed to work for longer time periods.

That Raspberry pi is not classed As Secure Platform is the last piece missing :-). Should Pi has this classification than it would be ideal device. Now it is 80% device for me. Still the highest % from any other solutions.

In a video this year Eben Upton stated that "Secure Platform" would be a good goal to aim for, but was not a priority.
Take what I advise as advice not the utopian holy grail, and it is gratis !!

Heater
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Re: MS Edge on Raspbian

Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:06 pm

Can somebody explain to me what "DRM" and "Secure Platform" is actually supposed to mean?

Is it so that people are actively campaigning to have control of what they can and cannot do with their own computer controlled by some third party. From boot up to watching telly?

That seems to me to be the antithesis of what the Pi was created for.

Am I missing a point here?
Slava Ukrayini.

jamesh
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Re: MS Edge on Raspbian

Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:20 pm

Heater wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:06 pm
Can somebody explain to me what "DRM" and "Secure Platform" is actually supposed to mean?

Is it so that people are actively campaigning to have control of what they can and cannot do with their own computer controlled by some third party. From boot up to watching telly?

That seems to me to be the antithesis of what the Pi was created for.

Am I missing a point here?
Yes, but fairly pointless explaining it given your preconceptions.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: MS Edge on Raspbian

Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:29 pm

Heater wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:06 pm
Can somebody explain to me what "DRM" and "Secure Platform" is actually supposed to mean?

Is it so that people are actively campaigning to have control of what they can and cannot do with their own computer controlled by some third party. From boot up to watching telly?

That seems to me to be the antithesis of what the Pi was created for.

Am I missing a point here?

It is to ensure Content Providers have control of their Content:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management

Though you probably knew that and just playing Devils Advocate.
Take what I advise as advice not the utopian holy grail, and it is gratis !!

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Re: MS Edge on Raspbian

Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:43 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:29 pm
Heater wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:06 pm
Can somebody explain to me what "DRM" and "Secure Platform" is actually supposed to mean?

Is it so that people are actively campaigning to have control of what they can and cannot do with their own computer controlled by some third party. From boot up to watching telly?

That seems to me to be the antithesis of what the Pi was created for.

Am I missing a point here?

It is to ensure Content Providers have control of their Content:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management

Though you probably knew that and just playing Devils Advocate.
There is considerable tension between FOSS/"information wants to be free" and a belief in intellectual property rights.

It is possibly worth noting that the modern concept of copyright is just that--relatively modern.

I tend to see both sides because my wife writes.

Mikka12
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Re: MS Edge on Raspbian

Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:50 pm

To Jamesh: Is there a plan in place to make RPi a Secure Platform as mentioned in one of the previous posts?

Heater
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Re: MS Edge on Raspbian

Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:31 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:29 pm
It is to ensure Content Providers have control of their Content:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management

Though you probably knew that and just playing Devils Advocate.
Well, I kind of get the idea.

However, preconceptions aside, we all have those, I don't understand how it is supposed to work.

If you, as a content provider, provide a file to me, as a customer of your work, then how is such DRM going to protect it from my nefarious copying or distributing?

In order to control what happens to that file you would have to control my machine. Making it impossible for me to do things with your file that you don't like. From boot up.

That seems to imply that I don't have control of my machine anymore. I could not use it how I like as the computer that it is.

Is there a happy "middle way" in all this?

At the moment I don't see it. Either one has a general purpose computer or one has a locked down appliance like an ebook reader or games console.

Perhaps I'm wrong. I thought the Pi was about the computer thing not the appliance thing.

What am I missing here?
Slava Ukrayini.

sergioad
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Re: MS Edge on Raspbian

Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:36 am

I also would like to see it on Linux, Specially for Ubuntu

Uwe G.
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Re: MS Edge on Raspbian

Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:44 am

Microsoft Edge DEV https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en ... =linux-deb is already available and works for me running Ubuntu 20.04 LTS on an AMD PC but not on RasPi.
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Hope you enjoy your Pi!
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davidcoton
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Re: MS Edge on Raspbian

Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:09 pm

Uwe G. wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:44 am
Microsoft Edge DEV https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en ... =linux-deb is already available and works for me running Ubuntu 20.04 LTS on an AMD PC but not on RasPi.
Why would you expect an AMD image to run on an ARM platform? It will need to be recompiled from source.
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bjtheone
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Re: MS Edge on Raspbian

Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:59 pm

Heater wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:31 pm
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:29 pm
It is to ensure Content Providers have control of their Content:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management

Though you probably knew that and just playing Devils Advocate.
Well, I kind of get the idea.

However, preconceptions aside, we all have those, I don't understand how it is supposed to work.

If you, as a content provider, provide a file to me, as a customer of your work, then how is such DRM going to protect it from my nefarious copying or distributing?
This is the part that I am missing as well. Unless you lockdown the entire stream from transmission to display, there will be a way to acquire and redistribute. I will concede that it does come down the the ease of doing so, but as someone who has dabbled in settop boxes, cable drm, fta satellite, and other means, there will _always_ be a way to acquire and distribute, or just watch. I also happen to live in a country where it is not illegal to do so (the "decoding").

I complete agree that the provider should have the right to be paid for their work. However, I have a fully paid up subscription to NetFlix, Disney +, and Amazon Prime and I do not agree that they should get to dictate the equipment I choose to watch their content on.

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dickon
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Re: MS Edge on Raspbian

Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:27 pm

bjtheone wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:59 pm
Heater wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:31 pm
Well, I kind of get the idea.

However, preconceptions aside, we all have those, I don't understand how it is supposed to work.

If you, as a content provider, provide a file to me, as a customer of your work, then how is such DRM going to protect it from my nefarious copying or distributing?
This is the part that I am missing as well. Unless you lockdown the entire stream from transmission to display, there will be a way to acquire and redistribute. I will concede that it does come down the the ease of doing so, but as someone who has dabbled in settop boxes, cable drm, fta satellite, and other means, there will _always_ be a way to acquire and distribute, or just watch. I also happen to live in a country where it is not illegal to do so (the "decoding").
It doesn't. The concept is fundamentally flawed. They have to ship the cyphertext and the key to decode it to you, the user, and hope that you can only apply one to the other in the manner they approve of.

To protect content, you need to have complete control of all the keys and software in the chain, from source to playback. Microsoft (and I think Apple) attempt to ensure this by having undebuggable processes / shared objects, where the OS refuses to allow any of the usual debugging hooks to be used, to make extracting the keys harder. It plainly doesn't work, as two minutes on the torrent site of your choice will show. Linux has no such concept, so the oft-mentioned Widevine DRM plugin is ripe for abuse on open platforms. Frankly, I'm surprised it exists, but I suppose Google has clout...
As it is apparently board policy to disallow any criticism of anything, as it appears to criticise something is to criticise all the users of that something, I will no longer be commenting in threads which are not directly relevant to my uses of the Pi.

Uwe G.
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Re: MS Edge on Raspbian

Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:37 am

davidcoton wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:09 pm
Uwe G. wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:44 am
Microsoft Edge DEV https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en ... =linux-deb is already available and works for me running Ubuntu 20.04 LTS on an AMD PC but not on RasPi.
Why would you expect an AMD image to run on an ARM platform? It will need to be recompiled from source.
I never said that I would expect that to run as my following post (which has not been published) links to the related MS techcommunity discussion regarding support for M1 devices here: https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/ ... 021#M41152
———————————————
Hope you enjoy your Pi!
Uwe G.

Moonmarch
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Re: MS Edge on Raspbian

Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:29 pm

I have tested out the new version of Microsoft Edge, and I would say Microsoft Edge is completely similar to the Chromium web browser. The main difference between Microsoft Edge, and Chromium would be account access. Microsoft Edge connects to a Outlook account, and Chromium connected to a Google account. Windows PC users would use Microsoft Edge over the Chrome web browser or Chromium. Linux users would use either the Chromium web browser or Firefox web browser. I wouldn't consider Microsoft Edge a replacement for the Chromium web browser. The source code needs to be available to the public, then you would be able to build the program using the source code.

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