LxB
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:56 pm

4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:19 pm

Does anyone know preferably have experience with any 4K HDR capable SBC ? I am not interested in gaming on SBC as I have a gaming PC, I intend to use the SBC as a streaming device for movies, online videos and music.

I have heard of boards such as those based on RK3328 but, performance seems to suffer a lot.

I am considering Nvidia Shiled but would really prefer an SBC. Can anyone pitch in and help me narrowing down to a few SBCs ?

Thanks

User avatar
Ronaldlees
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:28 pm
Location: North Carolina, US
Contact: Website

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:31 pm

The Pi3 does 4K video, but I guess the frame rate is not so hot. You could try the Odroid C2 I suppose, but that'd be heresy :-)
I am the Umbrella man

User avatar
jahboater
Posts: 7538
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:38 pm
Location: Wonderful West Dorset

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:56 pm

Ronaldlees wrote:The Pi3 does 4K video, but I guess the frame rate is not so hot. You could try the Odroid C2 I suppose, but that'd be heresy :-)
More heresy .... it has GigE networking too and faster eMMC storage, both of which might help your application.

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 15409
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:58 pm

There has been some loose talk about the BCM7268 with VC5 leading one to surmise that the next iteration of Pi may be able to handle 2160p60 streaming. We won't know for sure for (probably) at least 9 months, and possibly 21 months (based on Eben's "2 to 3 years" statement when the Pi3B was launched).

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 30149
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:56 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:There has been some loose talk about the BCM7268 with VC5 leading one to surmise that the next iteration of Pi may be able to handle 2160p60 streaming. We won't know for sure for (probably) at least 9 months, and possibly 21 months (based on Eben's "2 to 3 years" statement when the Pi3B was launched).
That's a set top box chip, doesn't cover the requirements for the next gen Pi.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 15409
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:04 pm

jamesh wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote:There has been some loose talk about the BCM7268 with VC5 leading one to surmise that the next iteration of Pi may be able to handle 2160p60 streaming. We won't know for sure for (probably) at least 9 months, and possibly 21 months (based on Eben's "2 to 3 years" statement when the Pi3B was launched).
That's a set top box chip, doesn't cover the requirements for the next gen Pi.
Which requirements does it omit? (Also, the fact that it exists and that as much VC5 as has been developed and gotten working at 28nm argues that said VC5 has the potential to be part of the next gen Pi. If you know, and are allowed to say, it'd be interesting to know how much memory the VC5 can address...)

User avatar
bensimmo
Posts: 5490
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:02 pm
Location: East Yorkshire

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:34 pm

It's a dual core chip, would that not drop the 'desktop' power backwards?
Cost ?

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 15409
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:10 am

bensimmo wrote:It's a dual core chip, would that not drop the 'desktop' power backwards?
Cost ?
I don't think dual core is actually a show stopper, depending on what else it can do. Others are likely to disagree. From what I've seen of it, the claim is that it's ARMv7. That would be a step backwards and might raise additional objections. To high a cost would prevent use, but I wouldn't class that as an "SoC feature".

I am curious as to what jamesh will have to say...if he is permitted to say anything at all.

Regardless, the mere existence of the BCM7268 suggests, to me at least, that an SoC for what may as well be called a "Pi4B" is very likely to be well on its way. I think it suggests that next year is reasonably likely for a launch. If so, I would consider it likely at this point that fully working chips are probably available for board and software development and there is a decent chance that bulk orders for initial production have been or soon will be placed.

Heater
Posts: 18758
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:10 am

jamesh,
...doesn't cover the requirements for the next gen Pi.
Hmm...interesting. That statement implies there are already requirements laid down for the next generation Pi.

I wonder what they might be....
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

User avatar
jahboater
Posts: 7538
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:38 pm
Location: Wonderful West Dorset

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:10 am

Surly dual core ARMv7 would be too big a step backwards for a Pi4, but it has been possible to insert CPU's of choice within the SoC in the past.
28nm Cortex A53 would bring it level with the competition - but my bet is the RPF will jump ahead.

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 30149
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:37 am

Heater wrote:jamesh,
...doesn't cover the requirements for the next gen Pi.
Hmm...interesting. That statement implies there are already requirements laid down for the next generation Pi.

I wonder what they might be....
Roadmap in place for the next 5 years or more. And its really cool. Really REALLY cool. And surprising. Did I mention cool? And of course I'm not going to say ANYTHING about its content. So not even worth asking.

Never ceases to amaze me that people think we just sit in the office not doing anything about future product development.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

Heater
Posts: 18758
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:03 am

jamesh,

"its really cool" huh. That's all I need to know. As if I did not know it already.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

User avatar
jahboater
Posts: 7538
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:38 pm
Location: Wonderful West Dorset

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:07 pm

Heater wrote:"its really cool" huh.
Perhaps "cool" means 10nm lithography :)

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 30149
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:13 pm

jahboater wrote:
Heater wrote:"its really cool" huh.
Perhaps "cool" means 10nm lithography :)
Going that small is really expensive. I reckon 28nm is the sweet spot right now - not sure how that will change in the next few years.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

User avatar
topguy
Posts: 7238
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:46 am
Location: Trondheim, Norway

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:29 pm

Remember you need HEVC/h.265 support also for 4K video. I could not find proof that LemonPi is in production but the Asus Tinker Board has suitable specs at least.

But it has the following disclaimer:
*HD & UHD video playback at 30 fps on Tinker Board is currently only available via the included media player. Third-party video players and applications may not offer hardware acceleration, which will result in limited or unstable playback performance. Please refer to the FAQs for more information.

User avatar
Burngate
Posts: 6483
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:34 pm
Location: Berkshire UK Tralfamadore
Contact: Website

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:43 pm

I understood "REALLY cool" to imply close to -273C, so quantum computing.
But I'm probably wrong.

User avatar
DougieLawson
Posts: 41898
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:19 pm
Location: A small cave in deepest darkest Basingstoke, UK
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:23 pm

jamesh wrote: And its really cool. Really REALLY cool. And surprising. Did I mention cool?
Does it have cool blue unicorns or are they still pink?
Languages using left-hand whitespace for syntax are ridiculous

DMs sent on Twitter/LinkedIn will be answered next month.
Fake doctors - are all on my foes list.

The use of crystal balls and mind reading is prohibited.

User avatar
rpdom
Posts: 19278
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 5:17 am
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:30 pm

DougieLawson wrote:
jamesh wrote: And its really cool. Really REALLY cool. And surprising. Did I mention cool?
Does it have cool blue unicorns or are they still pink?
At -273°C they would probably be blue :lol:

User avatar
DougieLawson
Posts: 41898
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:19 pm
Location: A small cave in deepest darkest Basingstoke, UK
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:33 pm

rpdom wrote:
DougieLawson wrote:
jamesh wrote: And its really cool. Really REALLY cool. And surprising. Did I mention cool?
Does it have cool blue unicorns or are they still pink?
At -273°C they would probably be blue :lol:
At -273° they'd be metallic and dead from frostbite.
Languages using left-hand whitespace for syntax are ridiculous

DMs sent on Twitter/LinkedIn will be answered next month.
Fake doctors - are all on my foes list.

The use of crystal balls and mind reading is prohibited.

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 15409
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:43 pm

topguy wrote:Remember you need HEVC/h.265 support also for 4K video. I could not find proof that LemonPi is in production but the Asus Tinker Board has suitable specs at least.
The "maligned"--by jamesh--BCM7268 which includes something they are calling a VC5 is stated to include H.265 and to do 2160p60. So even if that chip is not suitable, and assuming that the next Pi will use a Broadcom chip, I think the "VC5" is pretty much a given.

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 15409
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:53 pm

jamesh wrote: Roadmap in place for the next 5 years or more. And its really cool. Really REALLY cool. And surprising. Did I mention cool? And of course I'm not going to say ANYTHING about its content. So not even worth asking.

Never ceases to amaze me that people think we just sit in the office not doing anything about future product development.
I wouldn't expect you to say anything that is covered by that plan for a couple of reasons. The first, and most obvious, being that, formally or informally, it's all under NDA. The second is that planned schedules for hardware roadmaps are notoriously slippery. The problem with the later point is that there are to many people who read "we are planning to do X in the next Y years" as "we will absolutely deliver X next week."

What I think you do in the office is (a) plan as far ahead as you can, and then (b) sweat blood working to make it so. At this point, while you can't say so, I would expect that the SoC for the next Pi is in hand and probably not the first iteration of the Silicon, board design is finalized or nearly so, and software is coming along. All of that would be true for anything in the time frame Eben mentioned when the Pi3B launched. In addition, I would presume that the features for what might be termed the "Pi5B" have been decided and hardware design is underway...and that we won't see that board for 3 to 5 years. There is probably at least a sketch in place for a Pi6B that might see the light of day in 6 to 8 years.

User avatar
Gavinmc42
Posts: 6298
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:31 am

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:49 am

Cool would be a VC5?
Maybe BCM7268 2A+ , a dual core A+ would be cool but the BCM7268 is ARMv7, ho hum.
Most of the 96? models of set top box BCM chips seem to have 32bit low end cpu's.

4K would be cool.
Read some where that ARM says h.265 is easier to do in software and harder in hardware, but that was few years ago.
Roadmap in place for the next 5 years or more. And its really cool. Really REALLY cool. And surprising. Did I mention cool? And of course I'm not going to say ANYTHING about its content. So not even worth asking.

Never ceases to amaze me that people think we just sit in the office not doing anything about future product development.
That's an over abundance of really, really coolness, we will buy them anyway.
Yep, you sit on your butts in the office answering silly posts about unicorns, then Eben gets his magic wand out and a new Pi spontaneously appears.

We only see the swans floating across the lake, not all the mad paddling underneath.
Time for the inside story? "A brief history of Pi, the first 10 years"

The word "surprising" is surprising, can evolution be surprising? Or are we talking revolution?
Don't forget it is the software that takes time to evolve too.
Just having hardware is no good without the stuff that runs on Pi's.
BCM7268/71 have been announced in a few STB products, so there are VC5s in the wild?
The camera stuff is separate hardware blocks, not needed for testing the VC5 graphics.

Eric's been doing stuff with them, how long has silicon with VC5 been been out to the software guys.
The trend seems to be upstream to mainline Linux, 4.13 or later going to have VC5 DRM/Vulkan?
Serious embedded gaming platform on Pi?
Let's face it, those Beeb's, Commodore's,Atari's etc, most of them were used to play games :D

I keep getting amazed at the graphics in games the kid can get running on his alcheapo android tablet.

As a hardware guy I get interested in the hardware and forget the software.
How many RPF people do the software now, 5 -10 times as many as hardware?

Cool is good 8-)
Surprising is unexpected, just like the success of the Pi is unexpected.
We all wait to be surprised.
What is after surprising?? Amazing?
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

User avatar
bensimmo
Posts: 5490
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:02 pm
Location: East Yorkshire

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:01 am

Sagemcom announced using it last year sometime after the chip group was released.
Inc 802.11ac USB3 etc, more Ram access.
I also believe android is running on it as it's in some Android TVs (a least a good old search bring s that up straight away)

Either way there are alternative platforms for anyone wanting that now. I'm not a media user so doesn't bother me. Rock64 possibly but then why not just get a HDR media player box you find on alibaba/eBay/Amazon and go about hacking that?
I guess somebody may bring out a Media SBC (or Kodi targeted type)


I want low power, with usable power, with room for playing with and simple software.
I wonder if anyone makes that for me?
Of course that's not the topic for this thread ;-)

Heater
Posts: 18758
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:45 am

Gavinmc42,
...can evolution be surprising?
Well, we human beings are here as a result of evolution. That's pretty surprising.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

User avatar
RaTTuS
Posts: 10801
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:12 am
Location: North West UK
Contact: Twitter YouTube

Re: 4K HDR Capable SBC ?

Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:29 am

LxB wrote:Does anyone know preferably have experience with any 4K HDR capable SBC ? I am not interested in gaming on SBC as I have a gaming PC, I intend to use the SBC as a streaming device for movies, online videos and music.

I have heard of boards such as those based on RK3328 but, performance seems to suffer a lot.

I am considering Nvidia Shiled but would really prefer an SBC. Can anyone pitch in and help me narrowing down to a few SBCs ?

Thanks
to get back on thread
https://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/en/asu ... pport.html


and to continue off thread
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... -Gallium3D
How To ask Questions :- http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
WARNING - some parts of this post may be erroneous YMMV

1QC43qbL5FySu2Pi51vGqKqxy3UiJgukSX
Covfefe

Return to “Off topic discussion”