cspan
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:26 am

davidcoton wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:05 pm
Here
Thank you so much! Noted for future reference.

deaglecat
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:54 pm

I am sorry to ask a basic question, but how well does Ubuntu 20.10 run on this device ? Is it fully compatible and is the 4Gb RAM sufficient.

(not sure why, but I am looking for another low cost Linux box and the form factor reminds me, a little bit, of an Amiga...).

NinjaMig21
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:24 pm

cspan wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:05 pm
Seems like the most popular external storage is an SSD. They appear to have speed and (physical) size advantages. But external HDD have price, capacity, and perhaps longevity advantages. Is there any reason why an external HDD is unsuitable for a Pi 400 (or 4B) boot and OS device?

I have both slim unpowered external HDD drives, as well as a powered docking station for larger, internal HDD (it has a SATA interface). Both types would connect to Pi via USB 3.0.

thanks -
I run both. SATA SSD for boot and a 1TB SSD for plex server files. No reason why you couldn't run everything from a hard drive. SSDs are popular because low end drives are very fast (compared to spinning drives) and affordable (around 20 eur for 120GB).

NinjaMig21
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:27 pm

deaglecat wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:54 pm
I am sorry to ask a basic question, but how well does Ubuntu 20.10 run on this device ? Is it fully compatible and is the 4Gb RAM sufficient.

(not sure why, but I am looking for another low cost Linux box and the form factor reminds me, a little bit, of an Amiga...).
I've tried Ubuntu mate and the "regular" ubuntu 20.10. They both seem to run great even from an SD card. No complaints really. 4GB ram is enough if you are conservative with browser tabs.

maggibje
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:34 pm

I've got a Zenscreen go 16AP, a USB-C portable screen, and would love to get the raspberry pi 400 to use with it. The screen has an inbuilt battery and I know that the pi 400 doesn't output video from its USB-C port but could I use the USB-A port for video output or get an HDMI adaptor? I'm a bit sceptical about the HDMI adaptor as the screen seems very temperamental with adaptors.

lingon
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Re: 23 fun Raspberry Pi 400 facts

Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:39 pm

andrum99 wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:54 pm
The Pi 4B 8GB uses the C0 stepping of the BCM2711 as well.
Can you post a photo of Pi 4B 8GB with a C0 stepping of the BCM2711? Can you also post the corresponding output of

Code: Select all

cat /proc/cpuinfo
?

The initial release photo of the Pi 4B 8GB shows a B0 stepping.
Image
But newer boards are likely to be equipped with more recent steppings as they become available.

trejan
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Re: 23 fun Raspberry Pi 400 facts

Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:19 pm

jahboater wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:29 pm
"lscpu" shows the same stepping for my Pi4 8GB as it does for my Pi4 2GB
lscpu still shows r0p3 as that is the revision code of the ARM cores not the whole SoC. Pi 400 with the C0 stepping still shows r0p3.
lingon wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:39 pm
Can you also post the corresponding output of

Code: Select all

cat /proc/cpuinfo
?
SoC stepping isn't shown in /proc/cpuinfo

Most reliable way at the moment is to just look at the markings on the SoC. I was trying to see if the PCIe bounce buffer difference is easily visible but it doesn't seem to be. Will need to poke around more.

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Re: 23 fun Raspberry Pi 400 facts

Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:37 pm

andrum99 wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:54 pm
pi3g wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:01 pm
I've compiled a list of 23 fun Raspberry Pi 400 facts - including some in this thread:

https://picockpit.com/raspberry-pi/23-f ... 400-facts/

It includes a new bonus fact I've not seen here before (yesterday): The Pi 400 still has the USB 2.0 OTG port routed to the USB C plug.

Cheers,
Max

P.S: Many thanks to all Raspberry Pi engineers who have shared background information on here & clarified things!
The Pi 4B 8GB uses the C0 stepping of the BCM2711 as well.
No it doesn't. You can't buy a Pi 4B 8GB C0

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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:43 pm

Amended im my blogpost, thanks for the clarification.

Max
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jamesh
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Re: 23 fun Raspberry Pi 400 facts

Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:43 pm

andrum99 wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:54 pm
pi3g wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:01 pm
I've compiled a list of 23 fun Raspberry Pi 400 facts - including some in this thread:

https://picockpit.com/raspberry-pi/23-f ... 400-facts/

It includes a new bonus fact I've not seen here before (yesterday): The Pi 400 still has the USB 2.0 OTG port routed to the USB C plug.

Cheers,
Max

P.S: Many thanks to all Raspberry Pi engineers who have shared background information on here & clarified things!
The Pi 4B 8GB uses the C0 stepping of the BCM2711 as well.
There are no production Pi4's with the C0 stepping, and there are unlikely to be any for some time. So if you are thinking you'll wait, it will be a long wait, and not worth it for the difference (which is small)
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

ejolson
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Re: 23 fun Raspberry Pi 400 facts

Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:17 pm

trejan wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:19 pm
jahboater wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:29 pm
"lscpu" shows the same stepping for my Pi4 8GB as it does for my Pi4 2GB
lscpu still shows r0p3 as that is the revision code of the ARM cores not the whole SoC. Pi 400 with the C0 stepping still shows r0p3.
lingon wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:39 pm
Can you also post the corresponding output of

Code: Select all

cat /proc/cpuinfo
?
SoC stepping isn't shown in /proc/cpuinfo

Most reliable way at the moment is to just look at the markings on the SoC. I was trying to see if the PCIe bounce buffer difference is easily visible but it doesn't seem to be. Will need to poke around more.
Are you saying that the Pi 400 doesn't need the bounce buffers?

trejan
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Re: 23 fun Raspberry Pi 400 facts

Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:40 pm

ejolson wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:17 pm
Are you saying that the Pi 400 doesn't need the bounce buffers?
Yes

cspan
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:17 pm

I think this was alluded to in a query upthread regarding the "power switch", but just to confirm:

can you use an external (wired) keyboard with the Pi 400, if you're not a fan of the included keyboard but otherwise like and value most of the other changes and improvements over the Pi 4B?

[curious about the answer for wireless keyboard too, but for the moment I still prefer wired for security].

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hansotten
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:22 pm

cspan wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:17 pm
I think this was alluded to in a query upthread regarding the "power switch", but just to confirm:

can you use an external (wired) keyboard with the Pi 400, if you're not a fan of the included keyboard but otherwise like and value most of the other changes and improvements over the Pi 4B?

[curious about the answer for wireless keyboard too, but for the moment I still prefer wired for security].
No problem, its just USB HID. Wireless, wired.
http://duinorasp.hansotten.com for Raspberry Pi and Arduino and ESP8266
http://retro.hansotten.nl for retrocomputing with 8 bit CPU's

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pi3g
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:27 pm

cspan wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:17 pm
I think this was alluded to in a query upthread regarding the "power switch", but just to confirm:

can you use an external (wired) keyboard with the Pi 400, if you're not a fan of the included keyboard but otherwise like and value most of the other changes and improvements over the Pi 4B?

[curious about the answer for wireless keyboard too, but for the moment I still prefer wired for security].
yes, you can use any USB or Bluetooth device with the Pi 400 - this includes keyboards!. You can also run several keyboards attached to the Pi 4, if you want :-)

(in fact I run two keyboards on my desktop PC - one is a wireless Logitech keyboard, to allow to work on the console on the other display on the side, run through a KVM switch which can switch it to the Raspberry Pi as well, if needed)
picockpit.com - tools to make your life with the Pi a little bit easier

cleverca22
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:44 pm

pi3g wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:27 pm
yes, you can use any USB or Bluetooth device with the Pi 400 - this includes keyboards!. You can also run several keyboards attached to the Pi 4, if you want :-)

(in fact I run two keyboards on my desktop PC - one is a wireless Logitech keyboard, to allow to work on the console on the other display on the side, run through a KVM switch which can switch it to the Raspberry Pi as well, if needed)
you can also use multiple keyboards at once to make an emoji keyboard
if i was to re-create that project on linux, i would just use the nodes in /dev/input/ to read each keyboard, and then uinput i think, to generate key presses back into the os

trejan
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:46 pm

cspan wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:17 pm
can you use an external (wired) keyboard with the Pi 400, if you're not a fan of the included keyboard but otherwise like and value most of the other changes and improvements over the Pi 4B?
AFAIK you still need to use the built-in keyboard for the Fn + F10 power button to start it though.

ejolson
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:04 pm

trejan wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:46 pm
cspan wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:17 pm
can you use an external (wired) keyboard with the Pi 400, if you're not a fan of the included keyboard but otherwise like and value most of the other changes and improvements over the Pi 4B?
AFAIK you still need to use the built-in keyboard for the Fn + F10 power button to start it though.
My understanding is the Pi 400 boots up as soon as power is applied. If so, then one would not need to press any button.

trejan
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:06 pm

ejolson wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:04 pm
trejan wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:46 pm
cspan wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:17 pm
can you use an external (wired) keyboard with the Pi 400, if you're not a fan of the included keyboard but otherwise like and value most of the other changes and improvements over the Pi 4B?
AFAIK you still need to use the built-in keyboard for the Fn + F10 power button to start it though.
My understanding is the Pi 400 boots up as soon as power is applied. If so, then one would not need to press any button.
Yeah. I meant if you had shut it down previously. You'd need to use press Fn + F10 on the built-in keyboard or disconnect + reconnect the power lead.

cspan
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:01 pm

Bump for this question - on the 400 and 4B, what is the max delay for waiting to boot from USB, e.g., how long can you set it to wait for an external HDD to spin up? Thanks
cspan wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:31 pm

So my question for the Pi 400 (and 4B, if boot from USB works natively on that), is: is this "wait" or delay the same as before? Or is it more forgiving of slower-to-spin-up HDD? I would sort of like my next Pi to boot up from a HDD just like my desktop PC does. Thrift, longevity, and maybe robustness to power outages lead me to favor booting from HDD instead of SSD so I'm keen to see if it's doable, and if so, what caveats may apply. Thanks!

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HermannSW
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:25 am

HermannSW wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:03 am
I looked at the 6 German resellers, and most had advance booking only.
I bought by the one telling delivery in 5 workdays on website, but in email confirmation it was 10 workdays.

I wanted to buy Pi-400 only, but then thought a mouse and power supply would be good to have as well.
But that was nearly the full bundle price, so I ordered the bundle.

So the Pi-400 is my 3rd keyboard computer (years of purchase):
keyboard.computers.png
This is the "DE keyboard kit" I did order on announcement day 11/2:
https://shop.funk24.net/detail/index/sA ... aspberrypi

10 workdays would have been last Monday, so I called the reseller this morning.
He told me that the only part of bundle that is late is "beginners guide" in German language.
He told me that "DE keyboard kit" with English "beginners guide" could be send out today.
I agreed, and already got tracking information -- should arrive this Saturday.

So if your foreign language kit is late, you might want to call your reseller as well ...
https://hermann-sw.github.io/planar_graph_playground
https://stamm-wilbrandt.de/en#raspcatbt
https://github.com/Hermann-SW/memrun
https://github.com/Hermann-SW/Raspberry_v1_camera_global_external_shutter
https://stamm-wilbrandt.de/en/Raspberry_camera.html

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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:40 am

At least on my side ( https://buyzero.de ) we didn't get any German kits so far - with or without guide. Possibly Funk24 is combining US kits or British kits with EU power supplies and German keyboards?

Would love to do that, but we've sent out all the German keyboards we got - waiting for more stock :-)
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HermannSW
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:23 pm

pi3g wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:40 am
Possibly Funk24 is combining US kits or British kits with EU power supplies and German keyboards?
The person I had a call with said that they have German non-kit Pi400s, and all kit addons.
Just got notified by DHL that I seem to get my Pi400 kit tomorrow ... :D

I hope that beginners guide is at least 21cm wide, better 23.5cm.
Then I can remove it and transort my Pi400 laptop 9"/10" HDMI display instead ... will see tomorrow:
viewtopic.php?f=140&t=291123&p=1761512& ... p#p1761512
Image
https://hermann-sw.github.io/planar_graph_playground
https://stamm-wilbrandt.de/en#raspcatbt
https://github.com/Hermann-SW/memrun
https://github.com/Hermann-SW/Raspberry_v1_camera_global_external_shutter
https://stamm-wilbrandt.de/en/Raspberry_camera.html

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karrika
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:35 pm

I just unpacked my Pi 400. The boot time from USB-SSD was a nice surprise. It starts really fast.

The SD card speed test on a Pi 400 gave the results:

Code: Select all

Raspberry Pi Diagnostics - version 0.5
Fri Nov 20 14:24:23 2020

Test : SD Card Speed Test
Run 1
prepare-file;0;0;312076;609
seq-write;0;0;312076;609
rand-4k-write;0;0;74812;18703
rand-4k-read;72255;18063;0;0
Sequential write speed 312076 KB/sec (target 10000) - PASS
Random write speed 18703 IOPS (target 500) - PASS
Random read speed 18063 IOPS (target 1500) - PASS
Test PASS
It is actually even much better than running the same SSD drive on a Pi4. Surprising.
The drive is the Samsung T5 500G connected to USB3 port with no extra power wires.
The previous test on a 4G RAM Pi4:

Code: Select all

Raspberry Pi Diagnostics - version 0.5
Wed Nov 11 18:50:38 2020

Test : SD Card Speed Test
Run 1
prepare-file;0;0;312076;609
seq-write;0;0;304818;595
rand-4k-write;0;0;60401;15100
rand-4k-read;59308;14827;0;0
Sequential write speed 304818 KB/sec (target 10000) - PASS
Random write speed 15100 IOPS (target 500) - PASS
Random read speed 14827 IOPS (target 1500) - PASS
Test PASS

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karrika
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:13 pm

Creating the Finnish localized Pi 400.

Start with a Swedish Raspberry Pi keyboard/USB hub combo.
20201120_152352.jpg
20201120_152352.jpg (127.71 KiB) Viewed 3038 times
Then a Pi 400 with an UK keyboard.
20201120_152643.jpg
20201120_152643.jpg (108.52 KiB) Viewed 3038 times
This keyboard module has a black plastic surrounding the LEDs so I gently removed that as well.

The result: A Finnish localized Pi 400.
20201120_153419.jpg
20201120_153419.jpg (127.73 KiB) Viewed 3038 times
The Fn + F10 power off/on works with the new localized keyboard. And all characters and modifiers are in the correct places. So this is perfect for my needs.

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