How to best verify size and test read/write speed of 64TB SSD?

[HermannSW]

Hi,
recently I was on aliexpress.com for searching something different, but noticed the many big terabyte portable SSDs of various sizes.
After some investigation I ended up with this seller:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004823371188.html
Starts with 500GB for 12$, then 1/2/4/6/8/10/12/14/16/26/30TB and finally 64TB for 37$.
I don't have the need for such big SSD yet (no need to store videos).
rainbow tables take quite some space (https://freerainbowtables.com/), not worked with those until now.
I decided to try the 64TB and spend the 37$, SSD arrived today in Germany after only 18 days.

I was really impressed, connected SSD to Pi400 running current 64bit PiOS and it directly mounted the SSD and asked whether I want to open in filemanager.

fdisk complains about corrupt backup GPT table, but works fine with primary:

Code: Select all

pi@pi400-64:~ $ sudo fdisk /dev/sdc

Welcome to fdisk (util-linux 2.36.1).
Changes will remain in memory only, until you decide to write them.
Be careful before using the write command.

The backup GPT table is corrupt, but the primary appears OK, so that will be used.

Command (m for help): p

Reported values are impressive:

Code: Select all

Disk /dev/sdc: 61.04 TiB, 67108864000000 bytes, 16384000000 sectors
Disk model: UDisk           
Units: sectors of 1 * 4096 = 4096 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytes
Disklabel type: gpt
Disk identifier: XXXXXXXX-_VER-Y_SE-CRET-YYYYYYYYYYYY

Device     Start         End     Sectors Size Type
/dev/sdc1      6        4095        4090  16M Microsoft reserved
/dev/sdc2   4096 16383999993 16383995898  61T Microsoft basic data

Command (m for help): 

Everything looks fine:

Code: Select all

pi@pi400-64:~ $ df /dev/sdc2
Filesystem       1K-blocks  Used   Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/sdc2      65535942656 24576 65535918080   1% /media/pi/SSD
pi@pi400-64:~ $ 

I have two questions.

1) How can I verify that the SSD really has >60TB of space and works correctly, other than filling filesystem with data and read later to see whether all is fine?

2) What read/write speed test is recommmend for such big SSD?

P.S:
And a third question, is exfat recommended filesystem type for such big SSDs under Linux, or are there better Linux filesystems (the ext types limits are too low),

[kerry_s]

if it sounds to good .....

i use gnome disks for drives

Code: Select all

sudo apt install gnome-disk-utility

[HermannSW]

if it sounds to good .....

Agree, sounds too good.

i use gnome disks for drives

Code: Select all

sudo apt install gnome-disk-utility

Installed and tried.

My primary Pi400 SSD 500GB partition allows for filesystem check:

500GB_check_available.png

500GB_check_available.png (55.79 KiB) Viewed 1174 times

But the 67TB partition has many options grayed out:

67TB_check_not_available.png

67TB_check_not_available.png (52.56 KiB) Viewed 1174 times

[thagrol]

Hi,
recently I was on aliexpress.com for searching something different, but noticed the many big terabyte portable SSDs of various sizes.
After some investigation I ended up with this seller:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004823371188.html
Starts with 500GB for 12$, then 1/2/4/6/8/10/12/14/16/26/30TB and finally 64TB for 37$.

I don't read whatever language that is (Portugese?) so can't be certain but that listing looks highly suspect to me.

In the text: "-Capacidad: 2TB/4TB/6TB/8TB"
In the images: mention of sizes up to 64TB and of NVMe. Also throws "My Passport" around a lot.

• IIRC "My Passport" is a Western DIgital brand though there is no branding visible in the images.
• A quick search on Amazon UK puts the cheapest 8TB SATA SSD at 713GPB and they don't list anything bigger.
• For NVMe drives Amazon don't go bigger than 4TB and those are priced at over 500GBP.

Take the risk if you like but you'll almost certainly be getting an enclosure that contains a micro SD card or USB flash drive with a hacked firmware the reports the wrong size and overwrites data as soon as you try to write more than the true capacity of the flash drive.

[edit]
And you'll need a 64bit OS to use that much in a single partition.
[/edit]

[thagrol]

But the 67TB partition has many options grayed out

If it's mounted it won't be able to check it but it looks like from the image it contains only a 17MB partition that has been formated with something you don't have the driver for.

Not having the driver also means you can't check it.

Scratch that bit. It looks like it does have an exFAT partition.

[HermannSW]

I don't read whatever language that is (Portugese?) so can't be certain but that listing looks highly suspect to me.

It shows English for me, you can select the language at top of browser window.

Take the risk if you like but you'll almost certainly be getting an enclosure that contains a micro SD card or USB flash drive with a hacked firmware the reports the wrong size and overwrites data as soon as you try to write more than the true capacity of the flash drive.

I see this as an experiment, and will definitely later open the case.

[edit]
And you'll need a 64bit OS to use that much in a single partition.
[/edit]

I use latest 64bit Raspberry PiOS.

But the 67TB partition has many options grayed out

If it's mounted it won't be able to check it

I unmounted the SSD, but still no check option with gnome-disks for that partition:

unmounted_no_check.png

unmounted_no_check.png (123.77 KiB) Viewed 1141 times

[HawaiianPi]

I have two questions.

1) How can I verify that the SSD really has >60TB of space and works correctly, other than filling filesystem with data and read later to see whether all is fine?

You can't, those drives are obvious fakes. I hope you weren't really expecting an SSD for that price/capacity!

Several youtubers have tested them and verified they're fake.

2) What read/write speed test is recommmend for such big SSD?

Doesn't matter, because it isn't even an SSD. Open it up and you'll see they're just reprogrammed SD cards (or USB flash drives) in fake SSD enclosures.

P.S:
And a third question, is exfat recommended filesystem type for such big SSDs under Linux, or are there better Linux filesystems (the ext types limits are too low),

My preference on Linux is ext4 (on a real SSD).

[HermannSW]

You both were correct wrt fake drive.
I did copy 1MB files onto drive, and after 2790 the drive switched to readonly, so real capacity is even less than 3GB.
After disconnect and reconnect, deleting files did not give back used space.
On 2nd try writing 1MB blocks drive did not change to readonly, but filesystem size stayed constant after 1407 loops:

ae.1.png

ae.1.png (80.83 KiB) Viewed 1046 times

I did request refund only for this fake with stating my experiments proving fake, lets see how it goes.

My > 600 orders from the last 8 years on aliexpress had only single digit number of problems.
All my refund requests were agreed upon (part did not arrive).
This is 1st "fake" product I ever received (or it least which does not work as stated in product description).

[fanoush]

If you check reviews on that aliexspress page many people complain it is fake. Ther are of course many fake reviews about how excellent it is but it can be guessed they are fake from the wording - too generic and short with no photos.

BTW it is good idea to check negative and neutral feedback for the seller
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/feedba ... 33878.html
It can be guessed from the messages whether the seller is scammer or not. There is always some negative feedback but you can often spot the pattern.

[jahboater]

And a third question, is exfat recommended filesystem type for such big SSDs under Linux, or are there better Linux filesystems (the ext types limits are too low),

I would use ext4. Mature and fast extent based filesystem with sophisticated journaling.

I don't understand your comment about ext types limits being too low?
In theory, ext4 can go up to 64 ZiB with individual files up to 16 TiB.

[thagrol]

And a third question, is exfat recommended filesystem type for such big SSDs under Linux, or are there better Linux filesystems (the ext types limits are too low),

I would use ext4. Mature and fast extent based filesystem with sophisticated journaling.

I don't understand your comment about ext types limits being too low?
In theory, ext4 can go up to 64 ZiB with individual files up to 16 TiB.

Only on a 64bit OS. On 32bit the partition limit is also 16TB.

[HermannSW]

Just saw that seller declined refund request stating they shipped well tested product.
I will wait until aliexpress steps in on 2/13 ...

Regarding space, the server I have access to (48 Intel xeon cores on 2 CPUs, 384GB RAM) has 13x1TB harddisks inside.
Raid leaves me 10TB of real free filesystem, so in case I need space, I have it ...

https://twitter.com/HermannSW/status/15 ... 4037955587

[swampdog]

Assuming you desire to post the bogus details in a comment to annoy the seller:

I'd go with (say 'parted') and 'dd'. Hint '-s' option to parted allows its commands to be scripted so all you need do is delete/create a single gpt partition then a single ext4 (mkfs.ext4) and check the error status ($?) of each command.

'dd' from /dev/urandom (say 1Gb file) on another machine, perform 'md5sum' on it and 'scp' it as a different name until something fails. Check the md5sum on the bogus device. Ideally generate a new /dev/urandom file each time and record the md5sum - that way the bogus device can't lie to you about what it can actually store.

[HawaiianPi]

I will wait until aliexpress steps in on 2/13 ...

Assuming this happens (you get a refund), and you're not required to return the device, might be fun to open it up and see what's inside yours, then post that in a review of the "well tested product" on AliExpress (preferably with pics).

Just be aware that others who have attempted disassembly have found it difficult, due to lots of glue being used (they really don't want you to see what's inside).

[cleverca22]

an example i found online recently:

[redvli]

I will wait until aliexpress steps in on 2/13 ...

Assuming this happens (you get a refund), and you're not required to return the device, might be fun to open it up and see what's inside yours, then post that in a review of the "well tested product" on AliExpress (preferably with pics).

Just be aware that others who have attempted disassembly have found it difficult, due to lots of glue being used (they really don't want you to see what's inside).

Maybe you can take it with you on a flight and then ask security personal to have you have a look at their 'X-ray monitor'. And hope that they don't mark you as terrorist, I once took tiny FM-radio (1-dollar-coin-sized, 3v3 Lithium battery) with me that I had extended with 2 AA-sized re-chargeable batteries (glued to it). That was before '911', but it was seen as quite suspicious and it needed some discussion in order to keep it and take it with me.

@HermannSW
If you think you need a lot of storage, start with a storage architecture that can live be extended (or shrink). LVM thin pool for example, it is even live transparantly extended. So on 64-bit OS, you can create a 64T filesystem inside an LVM thin pool that resides on a let's say a HDD of 4TB initially. That is a bit the RedHat way. But more real is using Btrfs as filesystem, as you can just plug in extra USB-stick or HDD and live add that to the filesystem. Or shrink and remove it live. It is also check-sum protecting every 4k (pages-sized) block, so you will automatically see/detect that thing you bought as fake. Ext4 can do lazy-init, so it writes every block but it takes very long time of course. Btrfs writes a minimal set of signatures or pointers at sort of exponentially numerated block locations, so a fake device like this will simply fail already at format time. Ext4 is very good for criminals one could say.

[aBUGSworstnightmare]

an example i found online recently:

*lol* that's a new device category: screw drive!

Sorry to say, but with such size for the price quoted it can (!) be fake only.

[ejolson]

Just saw that seller declined refund request stating they shipped well tested product.
I will wait until aliexpress steps in on 2/13 ...

Regarding space, the server I have access to (48 Intel xeon cores on 2 CPUs, 384GB RAM) has 13x1TB harddisks inside.
Raid leaves me 10TB of real free filesystem, so in case I need space, I have it ...

https://twitter.com/HermannSW/status/15 ... 4037955587

I’m looking forward to hearing how Aliexpress resolves this. While it is an interesting experiment to test whether return policies work for obviously fake merchandise, it's not something I would personally find very fun.

[HermannSW]

I’m looking forward to hearing how Aliexpress resolves this.

Today aliexpress stepped in, I hope for the best:

aliexpress_stepped_in.png

aliexpress_stepped_in.png (47.82 KiB) Viewed 621 times

While it is an interesting experiment to test whether return policies work for obviously fake merchandise, it's not something I would personally find very fun.

Agreed, I will not try out "to good to be true" in the near future again


P.S:

Recently I did spend 3$ for a digital projector displaying moon.
For that price I did not expect any quality, and was positively surprised:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004607500638.html

Then I ordered >10 different slides for few dollars inclusive shipping and they were good as well:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004973109181.html

Looks good even though HDMI display above top of photo was on:

DSCF0022.JPG.25%.jpg

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[HermannSW]

Dispute completed, aliexpress decided for full refund without return based on the facts I provided.
In between seller declined to refund, next time seller stated they can refund 5$ maximal.
But in the end it was a decision of aliexpress — good to have someone with power between you and sellers,.
This was first time I can think of having received fake product.

refund.png

refund.png (41.13 KiB) Viewed 525 times

Now that I got the money back and I did not have to return the "SSD", I opened it with a screwdriver.
It seems there is some kind of TF card inside — and a lot of free space:

DSCF0024.JPG.25%.jpg

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detail.jpg

detail.jpg (20.35 KiB) Viewed 516 times

P.S:
I don't understand the business model of the company.
Selling a "SSD" more than 1000× less capacity than product stated should make all customers entering dispute.
They only make money with those customers that don't do a dispute.

[trejan]

Now that I got the money back and I did not have to return the "SSD", I opened it with a screwdriver.
It seems there is some kind of TF card inside — and a lot of free space:

It is exactly as thagrol suspected. This is a very well known and widespread scam. Variations of it have been running for decades now.

I don't understand the business model of the company.
Selling a "SSD" more than 1000× less capacity than product stated should make all customers entering dispute.
They only make money with those customers that don't do a dispute.

The business model is that they're scammers. They're relying on 99% of buyers not bothering to do a capacity check or only copying a few GB of files as a test. The drive will be painfully slow so most people will give up. They'll only find out its a fake sometime after the return/refund period has expired.

Its still profitable enough for them to do this scam even after refunding the few people who do check it properly.

There are/were leaked manufacturer tools to reset the controllers in these cards to show the correct capacity. I wouldn't recommend using any of them though due to high risks of malware and the fact the cards will be very low quality anyway. Throw it into the bin once you're done looking at it.

[thagrol]

It is exactly as thagrol suspected. This is a very well known and widespread scam. Variations of it have been running for decades now.

Sometimes I hate being right.

[rpdom]

It is exactly as thagrol suspected. This is a very well known and widespread scam. Variations of it have been running for decades now.

Yes. Many years ago my wife ordered an 8GB MP3 player from ebay. It arrived and seemed to work until she got about half way through all the tracks she wanted to put on it. Then Windows (XP?) reported a corrupt file system. After a bit of poking I found that it only had 2GB of flash on board, but was reporting it as 8GB. as soon as you went past the 2GB boundary it wrapped round and started at sector 0. I reformatted it to use only 2GB and it did her well for a few years.

I've had a few things fail to arrive and the odd one or two that were completely the wrong item. (Some rose seeds are not solder flux, and a bridal veil is not an ethernet adaptor!), and one item broken.

It seems to be standard practice to offer a small partial refund as a "goodwill gesture", I always refuse and demand a full refund. They very rarely ask for the faulty/incorrect item back.

The bridal veil didn't suit me.

[ejolson]

Dispute completed, aliexpress decided for full refund without return based on the facts I provided.
In between seller declined to refund, next time seller stated they can refund 5$ maximal.
But in the end it was a decision of aliexpress — good to have someone with power between you and sellers,.
This was first time I can think of having received fake product.
refund.png


Now that I got the money back and I did not have to return the "SSD", I opened it with a screwdriver.
It seems there is some kind of TF card inside — and a lot of free space:
DSCF0024.JPG.25%.jpgdetail.jpg


P.S:
I don't understand the business model of the company.
Selling a "SSD" more than 1000× less capacity than product stated should make all customers entering dispute.
They only make money with those customers that don't do a dispute.

What I find surprising is that the link in your original post to the obviously fake merchandise is still active with hundreds of customers and a 4.3 star rating.

Fake storefronts and merchandise is not only a problem on AliExpress. Last year I ordered two ATX power supplies through NewEgg from a China-based reseller. The reseller provided a tracking number for a package shipped to a different address in the same town where I live. I got my money back and the reseller was delisted from NewEgg about the same time. The problem is all the waste and inefficiency makes it more expensive to get anything done at all.

[thagrol]

Fake storefronts and merchandise is not only a problem on AliExpress. Last year I ordered two ATX power supplies through NewEgg from a China-based reseller. The reseller provided a tracking number for a package shipped to a different address in the same town where I live. I got my money back and the reseller was delisted from NewEgg about the same time. The problem is all the waste and inefficiency makes it more expensive to get anything done at all.

I can think of a few online companies that allow third parties to sell through their websites. I've never used newegg but Amazon is, in my opinion, particularly bad as third party seller item pages look identical to Amazon's own items with easily missed "seller: " link being about the only clue.