giovanniguerrero3
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Raspberry Pi Compute 5 Release Date?

Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:47 pm

Hi there,

I’m doing some research for my company before we choose a computing platform for our hundreds of custom test boards. I’m curious to know if there are plans to release the Raspberry Pi Compute 5 now that the general board is available.

I’d love to know the release date, whether the form factor will be the same as the Raspberry Pi Compute 4, and if a development breakout board will also be available for separate purchase.

Thank you very much!

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thagrol
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Re: Raspberry Pi Compute 5 Release Date?

Sun Oct 22, 2023 1:59 pm

Try contacting RPL directly (there's a link at the bottom of this page).

Past precedent is that those who know aren't talking, we'll know on release day or, maybe, a month before then.
Knowledge, skills, & experience have value. If you expect to profit from someone's you should expect to pay for them.

All advice given is based on my experience. it worked for me, it may not work for you.
Need help? https://github.com/thagrol/Guides

jamesh
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Re: Raspberry Pi Compute 5 Release Date?

Sun Oct 22, 2023 8:08 pm

We hope to release some news on the CM5 sometime in H1 next year.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.
Meet me and the Pi team at Embedded World in Nürnberg, April 9th-11th, 2024
Hall 3A Stand 138
https://events.raspberrypi.com/official/24d5151d-dd0f-483d-88a7-a5fddaa5c554

memjr
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Re: Raspberry Pi Compute 5 Release Date?

Mon Oct 23, 2023 3:23 pm

I have a reliable inside source that says "before Christmas".

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liz
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Re: Raspberry Pi Compute 5 Release Date?

Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:55 am

I think you can consider me a reliable source. There will absolutely, unequivocally, definitely NOT be any announcement, release or anything else this year, and probably for many months after that. There is no imminent release of CM5.
Director of Communications, Raspberry Pi

hortimech
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Re: Raspberry Pi Compute 5 Release Date?

Thu Oct 26, 2023 12:46 pm

liz wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:55 am
I think you can consider me a reliable source. There will absolutely, unequivocally, definitely NOT be any announcement, release or anything else this year, and probably for many months after that. There is no imminent release of CM5.
So, based on what a certain Eben Upton said here:

https://www.theregister.com/2022/12/21/no_rpi_5_2023/

Which was basically, there will not be an RPI5 until 2024.

It looks like there will be a CM5 before Christmas :lol: :lol:

jamesh
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Re: Raspberry Pi Compute 5 Release Date?

Thu Oct 26, 2023 12:52 pm

Nope. I could tell you how I know, but then, of course, I'd have to Liam Neeson you.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.
Meet me and the Pi team at Embedded World in Nürnberg, April 9th-11th, 2024
Hall 3A Stand 138
https://events.raspberrypi.com/official/24d5151d-dd0f-483d-88a7-a5fddaa5c554

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Raspberry Pi Compute 5 Release Date?

Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:48 pm

memjr wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2023 3:23 pm
I have a reliable inside source that says "before Christmas".
Did your source specify a year?

memjr
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Re: Raspberry Pi Compute 5 Release Date?

Thu Oct 26, 2023 7:53 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:48 pm
memjr wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2023 3:23 pm
I have a reliable inside source that says "before Christmas".
Did your source specify a year?
Yes, but I promised him/her that I would not tell anyone.

DrDnar
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2023 6:28 am

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute 5 Release Date?

Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:03 pm

hortimech wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2023 12:46 pm
So, based on what a certain Eben Upton said here:
Which was basically, there will not be an RPI5 until 2024.
Sounds like he follows the "underpromise and overdeliver" mantra.
memjr wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2023 7:53 pm
Yes, but I promised him/her that I would not tell anyone.
Specifically, you promised not to tell the year?

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Raspberry Pi Compute 5 Release Date?

Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:04 pm

We will probably see the POE and m.2 hats before the CM5 or Pi500.
Those are for the Pi5 users and the demand for those needs to be filled before BCM2712 are sidelined to CM5 users.
Any CM5 user will need design in time and a stable OS, by mid next year the teething issue for Bookworm should be fixed.

First time poster wants CM5 or insider release info?
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

memjr
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Re: Raspberry Pi Compute 5 Release Date?

Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:08 pm

DrDnar wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:03 pm
hortimech wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2023 12:46 pm
So, based on what a certain Eben Upton said here:
Which was basically, there will not be an RPI5 until 2024.
Sounds like he follows the "underpromise and overdeliver" mantra.
memjr wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2023 7:53 pm
Yes, but I promised him/her that I would not tell anyone.
Specifically, you promised not to tell the year?
Correct

Lucretia
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Re: Raspberry Pi Compute 5 Release Date?

Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:48 pm

liz wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:55 am
I think you can consider me a reliable source. There will absolutely, unequivocally, definitely NOT be any announcement, release or anything else this year, and probably for many months after that. There is no imminent release of CM5.
FYI, with the addition of the new rp1 or whatever it's called on the rpi5, you've made it unusable in a pistorm. Hope you know people were looking forward to even better performance.

jamesh
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Re: Raspberry Pi Compute 5 Release Date?

Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:52 pm

Lucretia wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:48 pm
liz wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:55 am
I think you can consider me a reliable source. There will absolutely, unequivocally, definitely NOT be any announcement, release or anything else this year, and probably for many months after that. There is no imminent release of CM5.
FYI, with the addition of the new rp1 or whatever it's called on the rpi5, you've made it unusable in a pistorm. Hope you know people were looking forward to even better performance.
People everywhere do have better CPU performance. Just not with PiStorm. Almost certainly a software issue, but difficult to tell from the PiStorm website. Cannot see why it would be because of the RP1.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.
Meet me and the Pi team at Embedded World in Nürnberg, April 9th-11th, 2024
Hall 3A Stand 138
https://events.raspberrypi.com/official/24d5151d-dd0f-483d-88a7-a5fddaa5c554

jdb
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Re: Raspberry Pi Compute 5 Release Date?

Mon Dec 04, 2023 8:11 pm

Lucretia wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:48 pm
liz wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:55 am
I think you can consider me a reliable source. There will absolutely, unequivocally, definitely NOT be any announcement, release or anything else this year, and probably for many months after that. There is no imminent release of CM5.
FYI, with the addition of the new rp1 or whatever it's called on the rpi5, you've made it unusable in a pistorm. Hope you know people were looking forward to even better performance.
Define "unusable".
What is your use-case?
What doesn't work?
Rockets are loud.
https://astro-pi.org

cleverca22
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Re: Raspberry Pi Compute 5 Release Date?

Mon Dec 04, 2023 8:28 pm

jamesh wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:52 pm
People everywhere do have better CPU performance. Just not with PiStorm. Almost certainly a software issue, but difficult to tell from the PiStorm website. Cannot see why it would be because of the RP1.
pistorm bit-bangs the amiga addr/data bus over the gpio header, so you can slot an rpi directly into the m68k cpu socket

the higher latency of gpio over pcie makes it perform worse vs the pi3 with its direct mmio gpio

pi4 also performs worse then pi3, not sure why, it might be clock domains not lining up just right


exposing the bcm2712 gpio bare would likely fix the pistorm, but i assume its too late to change the cm5 pinout just to make one subset of the customers happy

Lucretia
Posts: 56
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Re: Raspberry Pi Compute 5 Release Date?

Sat Dec 09, 2023 1:34 pm

jamesh wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:52 pm
Lucretia wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:48 pm
liz wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:55 am
I think you can consider me a reliable source. There will absolutely, unequivocally, definitely NOT be any announcement, release or anything else this year, and probably for many months after that. There is no imminent release of CM5.
FYI, with the addition of the new rp1 or whatever it's called on the rpi5, you've made it unusable in a pistorm. Hope you know people were looking forward to even better performance.
People everywhere do have better CPU performance. Just not with PiStorm. Almost certainly a software issue, but difficult to tell from the PiStorm website. Cannot see why it would be because of the RP1.
No, they say it's down to the new chip adding latency.

jdb
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Re: Raspberry Pi Compute 5 Release Date?

Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:58 pm

Lucretia wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2023 1:34 pm

No, they say it's down to the new chip adding latency.
Where and when can we expect the bug report?
Rockets are loud.
https://astro-pi.org

jamesh
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Re: Raspberry Pi Compute 5 Release Date?

Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:20 am

cleverca22 wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2023 8:28 pm
jamesh wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:52 pm
People everywhere do have better CPU performance. Just not with PiStorm. Almost certainly a software issue, but difficult to tell from the PiStorm website. Cannot see why it would be because of the RP1.
pistorm bit-bangs the amiga addr/data bus over the gpio header, so you can slot an rpi directly into the m68k cpu socket

the higher latency of gpio over pcie makes it perform worse vs the pi3 with its direct mmio gpio

pi4 also performs worse then pi3, not sure why, it might be clock domains not lining up just right


exposing the bcm2712 gpio bare would likely fix the pistorm, but i assume its too late to change the cm5 pinout just to make one subset of the customers happy
Good grief. That's like a 0.0000001% use case. Cannot see us making a product to cater for that. Thus is a device for commercial and industrial users. For them, any future CM5 would be a massive upgrade.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.
Meet me and the Pi team at Embedded World in Nürnberg, April 9th-11th, 2024
Hall 3A Stand 138
https://events.raspberrypi.com/official/24d5151d-dd0f-483d-88a7-a5fddaa5c554

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rpdom
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Re: Raspberry Pi Compute 5 Release Date?

Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:21 am

cleverca22 wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2023 8:28 pm
jamesh wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:52 pm
People everywhere do have better CPU performance. Just not with PiStorm. Almost certainly a software issue, but difficult to tell from the PiStorm website. Cannot see why it would be because of the RP1.
pistorm bit-bangs the amiga addr/data bus over the gpio header, so you can slot an rpi directly into the m68k cpu socket

the higher latency of gpio over pcie makes it perform worse vs the pi3 with its direct mmio gpio

pi4 also performs worse then pi3, not sure why, it might be clock domains not lining up just right


exposing the bcm2712 gpio bare would likely fix the pistorm, but i assume its too late to change the cm5 pinout just to make one subset of the customers happy
Maybe the PIOs could be used to do some of the bit-banging directly on the RP1?
Unreadable squiggle

cleverca22
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Re: Raspberry Pi Compute 5 Release Date?

Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:08 am

rpdom wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:21 am
Maybe the PIOs could be used to do some of the bit-banging directly on the RP1?
discussed that with the pistorm guys, and even with the arm on the RP1 helping, it wouldnt really work

each bus access on the amiga is 540ns
a pcie transfer takes 250ns minimum, just because of the packet headers and the link rate and such

with the old implementation, it would require 1 write and 2 reads, so thats 250*3ns, or 750ns, and its too slow

with the RP1 arm or PIO helping out, you could maybe get it down to a 64bit read in one packet, so 500ns
and thats just leaving 40ns to spare, and it probably wouldnt make it in time for the next IO

the problem is not interfacing to the external board, but the latency to do a complete operation, and then go back to emulating, then start another operation

mee-how
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Re: Raspberry Pi Compute 5 Release Date?

Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:28 pm

jamesh wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:52 pm
Lucretia wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:48 pm
FYI, with the addition of the new rp1 or whatever it's called on the rpi5, you've made it unusable in a pistorm. Hope you know people were looking forward to even better performance.
People everywhere do have better CPU performance. Just not with PiStorm. Almost certainly a software issue, but difficult to tell from the PiStorm website. Cannot see why it would be because of the RP1.
Late on the forum but here comes the answer. On PiStorm we use GPIO of Raspberry to communicate with FPGA. In turn the FPGA translates it to 680x0 alike bus protocol. The communication occurs only in short (few bytes) packets and is highly non-deterministic (depends on actual program flow in multitasking OS).

The Pi5's GPIO is done by RP1 chip. The chip communicates with the BRCM through PCIe. While the PCIe itself is great for bulk transfers of larger amounts of data, it adds its own latency when the transmission is initiated. This is our performance killer. Due to the nature of transfers between Pi, FPGA and Amiga CPU bus, we cannot prepare larger communication packets in advance. In addition, the combination Pi+FPGA has only the time window of about 540ns mentioned before. Within this window we have to send data from Pi to FPGA, FPGA has to process it, perform communication through the CPU bus of the Amiga, and expose the result to the GPIO bus. Then, the software on Raspberry has to get this data back. Even if PCIe would add setup latency of 250ns for each initiated transfer, it would be too much for PiStorm needs. Two such transfers (one write, one read once FPGA is done) and almost whole time slot is wasted.

I do realize this is not something done by majority of raspberry users on daily basis, but for PiStorm very fast low-level GPIO bit-banging is absolutely mandatory. For that reason Pi5 (and probably CM5 in future if it uses RP1) is no-go for us.

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