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Botspot
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What happened to Raspbian-X?

Wed May 20, 2020 8:59 pm

So I've been keeping up with PiLAB's latest things they've made, and most recently they made a version of Raspbian that looks like Windows 10.
Image
This was very recent AFAIK, like May 17th. But when I tried to download it, I noticed that all their youtube videos had been deleted.
And their website, https://raspbian-x.com/, is just a blank white screen.

Anyway, I was able to access an [censored] and was able to download it, but I think it's very strange they would try to make the whole thing untraceable.

Does anyone know what happened? Maybe a copyright infringement since they included a Win98 VM? :?

[moderator censored link to download site to old (illegal) version]
Last edited by Botspot on Wed May 20, 2020 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

trejan
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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Wed May 20, 2020 9:04 pm

It got an article on Forbes yesterday so I assume it was finally popular enough to annoy Microsoft or Apple.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/barrycolli ... -to-macos/
Update, 20 May: The download site for iRaspbian has been taken down. A tweet sent to me from someone seemingly connected to the project said: “Site and download links are taken down. This was a fun project and there was no thought of legal ramifications considered. This was an attempt to make the pi4 more fun to use for those who don't just use it for hardware projects. Others only think of money and suing. Oh well.”

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kerry_s
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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Wed May 20, 2020 9:13 pm

had a feeling that was coming.

jamesh
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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Wed May 20, 2020 9:47 pm

trejan wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:04 pm
It got an article on Forbes yesterday so I assume it was finally popular enough to annoy Microsoft or Apple.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/barrycolli ... -to-macos/
Update, 20 May: The download site for iRaspbian has been taken down. A tweet sent to me from someone seemingly connected to the project said: “Site and download links are taken down. This was a fun project and there was no thought of legal ramifications considered. This was an attempt to make the pi4 more fun to use for those who don't just use it for hardware projects. Others only think of money and suing. Oh well.”
"No thought of legal ramifications...".

Dumbs as planks.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

desmo2v
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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Sat May 23, 2020 2:41 am

jamesh wrote:
trejan wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:04 pm
It got an article on Forbes yesterday so I assume it was finally popular enough to annoy Microsoft or Apple.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/barrycolli ... -to-macos/
Update, 20 May: The download site for iRaspbian has been taken down. A tweet sent to me from someone seemingly connected to the project said: “Site and download links are taken down. This was a fun project and there was no thought of legal ramifications considered. This was an attempt to make the pi4 more fun to use for those who don't just use it for hardware projects. Others only think of money and suing. Oh well.”
"No thought of legal ramifications...".

Dumbs as planks.
Suppose there would have been a large spike in raspberry pi sales and more people getting interested in Linux, " dumb as planks" I think not just some dedicated people who probably didn't think it would get so big.

Moonmarch
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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Sat May 23, 2020 7:18 pm

Raspbian-X does not resemble Windows 10, I would say Raspbian-X reminds you of Windows 10. I wouldn't say Raspbian-X would replace a Windows PC. I would even say a computer with Ubuntu OS installed would not replace a Windows PC either. Businesses use the software the business uses. If a business used Windows software, this means the employees will be familiar with Windows, not Linux. Raspbian-X provides the RPI computer the opportunity to be a Linux PC that can use WINE. Can you install WINE on the RPI computer yourself, you can if you know how to use the QEMU program. I don't know how to use QEMU, and QEMU is a computer emulator. If you use a Debian or Ubuntu PC you can install WINE, and WINE is a program that is intended to access Windows programs.

The creator of Raspbian should use a GitHub website to host the source code to the project. Even if the project closes down, doesn't mean someone else can't continue the project. That is the magic of open source software, projects can start, and end at any time.

jamesh
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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Sat May 23, 2020 7:52 pm

desmo2v wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 2:41 am
jamesh wrote:
trejan wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:04 pm
It got an article on Forbes yesterday so I assume it was finally popular enough to annoy Microsoft or Apple.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/barrycolli ... -to-macos/

"No thought of legal ramifications...".

Dumbs as planks.
Suppose there would have been a large spike in raspberry pi sales and more people getting interested in Linux, " dumb as planks" I think not just some dedicated people who probably didn't think it would get so big.
It doesn't matter how big or small you expect something to be, Microsoft and Apple defend their trademarks aggressively against anyone who infringes. As do we in fact. If you fail to defend anything, even small stuff, then you lay yourself open to problems defending against bigger stuff later.

Using other people trademarks to market your own products not a good idea.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

jamesh
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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Sat May 23, 2020 7:54 pm

Moonmarch wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:18 pm
Raspbian-X does not resemble Windows 10, I would say Raspbian-X reminds you of Windows 10. I wouldn't say Raspbian-X would replace a Windows PC. I would even say a computer with Ubuntu OS installed would not replace a Windows PC either. Businesses use the software the business uses. If a business used Windows software, this means the employees will be familiar with Windows, not Linux. Raspbian-X provides the RPI computer the opportunity to be a Linux PC that can use WINE. Can you install WINE on the RPI computer yourself, you can if you know how to use the QEMU program. I don't know how to use QEMU, and QEMU is a computer emulator. If you use a Debian or Ubuntu PC you can install WINE, and WINE is a program that is intended to access Windows programs.
Not the point. They were using trademarks owned by huge multinationals.That will always end in tears.
Moonmarch wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:18 pm
The creator of Raspbian should use a GitHub website to host the source code to the project. Even if the project closes down, doesn't mean someone else can't continue the project. That is the magic of open source software, projects can start, and end at any time.
AFAIK, all Raspbian is open source. I think it is even on github. But note, Raspbian is really just a specific ARMHF build of Debian, which is open source.

Also note, Raspbian is not a trademark of the Raspberry Pi group, it's a third party endeavour.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Sun May 24, 2020 5:21 am

jamesh wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:52 pm
desmo2v wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 2:41 am
jamesh wrote:

"No thought of legal ramifications...".

Dumbs as planks.
Suppose there would have been a large spike in raspberry pi sales and more people getting interested in Linux, " dumb as planks" I think not just some dedicated people who probably didn't think it would get so big.
It doesn't matter how big or small you expect something to be, Microsoft and Apple defend their trademarks aggressively against anyone who infringes. As do we in fact. If you fail to defend anything, even small stuff, then you lay yourself open to problems defending against bigger stuff later.

Using other people trademarks to market your own products not a good idea.
Actually...the biggest risk with not defending a *trademark* is that you will lose it altogether. It may even become a generic term. As examples, aspirin and linoleum both used to be trademarked products. This is no longer true.

ejolson
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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Sun May 24, 2020 5:52 am

jamesh wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:54 pm
Moonmarch wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:18 pm
Raspbian-X does not resemble Windows 10, I would say Raspbian-X reminds you of Windows 10. I wouldn't say Raspbian-X would replace a Windows PC. I would even say a computer with Ubuntu OS installed would not replace a Windows PC either. Businesses use the software the business uses. If a business used Windows software, this means the employees will be familiar with Windows, not Linux. Raspbian-X provides the RPI computer the opportunity to be a Linux PC that can use WINE. Can you install WINE on the RPI computer yourself, you can if you know how to use the QEMU program. I don't know how to use QEMU, and QEMU is a computer emulator. If you use a Debian or Ubuntu PC you can install WINE, and WINE is a program that is intended to access Windows programs.
Not the point. They were using trademarks owned by huge multinationals.That will always end in tears.
Moonmarch wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:18 pm
The creator of Raspbian should use a GitHub website to host the source code to the project. Even if the project closes down, doesn't mean someone else can't continue the project. That is the magic of open source software, projects can start, and end at any time.
AFAIK, all Raspbian is open source. I think it is even on github. But note, Raspbian is really just a specific ARMHF build of Debian, which is open source.

Also note, Raspbian is not a trademark of the Raspberry Pi group, it's a third party endeavour.
I don't see how iRaspbian or Raspbian-X would infringe on an Apple or Microsoft trademark. Are you saying the site was taken down because the name infringed on the Raspbian trademark?

fruitoftheloom
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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Sun May 24, 2020 7:28 am

ejolson wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 5:52 am
jamesh wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:54 pm
Moonmarch wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:18 pm
Raspbian-X does not resemble Windows 10, I would say Raspbian-X reminds you of Windows 10. I wouldn't say Raspbian-X would replace a Windows PC. I would even say a computer with Ubuntu OS installed would not replace a Windows PC either. Businesses use the software the business uses. If a business used Windows software, this means the employees will be familiar with Windows, not Linux. Raspbian-X provides the RPI computer the opportunity to be a Linux PC that can use WINE. Can you install WINE on the RPI computer yourself, you can if you know how to use the QEMU program. I don't know how to use QEMU, and QEMU is a computer emulator. If you use a Debian or Ubuntu PC you can install WINE, and WINE is a program that is intended to access Windows programs.
Not the point. They were using trademarks owned by huge multinationals.That will always end in tears.
Moonmarch wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:18 pm
The creator of Raspbian should use a GitHub website to host the source code to the project. Even if the project closes down, doesn't mean someone else can't continue the project. That is the magic of open source software, projects can start, and end at any time.
AFAIK, all Raspbian is open source. I think it is even on github. But note, Raspbian is really just a specific ARMHF build of Debian, which is open source.

Also note, Raspbian is not a trademark of the Raspberry Pi group, it's a third party endeavour.
I don't see how iRaspbian or Raspbian-X would infringe on an Apple or Microsoft trademark. Are you saying the site was taken down because the name infringed on the Raspbian trademark?

I believe that they included both Microsoft & Apple Software to offer emulation.
Take what I advise as advice not the utopian holy grail, and it is gratis !!

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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Sun May 24, 2020 8:02 am

ejolson wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 5:52 am
jamesh wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:54 pm
Moonmarch wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:18 pm
Raspbian-X does not resemble Windows 10, I would say Raspbian-X reminds you of Windows 10. I wouldn't say Raspbian-X would replace a Windows PC. I would even say a computer with Ubuntu OS installed would not replace a Windows PC either. Businesses use the software the business uses. If a business used Windows software, this means the employees will be familiar with Windows, not Linux. Raspbian-X provides the RPI computer the opportunity to be a Linux PC that can use WINE. Can you install WINE on the RPI computer yourself, you can if you know how to use the QEMU program. I don't know how to use QEMU, and QEMU is a computer emulator. If you use a Debian or Ubuntu PC you can install WINE, and WINE is a program that is intended to access Windows programs.
Not the point. They were using trademarks owned by huge multinationals.That will always end in tears.
Moonmarch wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:18 pm
The creator of Raspbian should use a GitHub website to host the source code to the project. Even if the project closes down, doesn't mean someone else can't continue the project. That is the magic of open source software, projects can start, and end at any time.
AFAIK, all Raspbian is open source. I think it is even on github. But note, Raspbian is really just a specific ARMHF build of Debian, which is open source.

Also note, Raspbian is not a trademark of the Raspberry Pi group, it's a third party endeavour.
I don't see how iRaspbian or Raspbian-X would infringe on an Apple or Microsoft trademark. Are you saying the site was taken down because the name infringed on the Raspbian trademark?
No.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

hippy
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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Sun May 24, 2020 2:54 pm

ejolson wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 5:52 am
I don't see how iRaspbian or Raspbian-X would infringe on an Apple or Microsoft trademark.
Without knowing what was in any 'cease and desist' request or other communications it's not clear what the reason for take-down would be. It could be trademark, copyright, design, licensing, passing-off, or something else.

A common problem in replicating look and feel of something else is where one gets 'looks exactly the same' icons from and how.

Figorj
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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Sun May 24, 2020 9:30 pm

You said that you found a way to install an older version, right? Could you please tell me how to do so? I am kind of new in this and wanted to download Raspbian-X but haven't been able to do so.

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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Mon May 25, 2020 4:11 pm

I have heard that the DMCA takedown only meant they had to remove the VM's, and the legalised version is now known as the "nighthawk edition" . see their Youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEsY0Xws0ME
A new download link will be available "soon" I hear.

obviously the old version is still illegal, and any download links will be removed, and the poster will receive a ban. :twisted: :roll:

ejolson
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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Mon May 25, 2020 4:17 pm

mahjongg wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 4:11 pm
I have heard that the DMCA takedown only meant they had to remove the VM's, and it is now known as the "nighthawk edition" . see their Youtube channel
A new download link will be available "soon".
Thanks for reopening this thread.

It seems those people put some effort into making a visually pleasing, if not useful, desktop. It's a good sign, in my opinion, that the Pi software base has reached the level of maturity where independent developers can focus on making a custom user interface.

bjtheone
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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Mon May 25, 2020 4:53 pm

Not sure if I would put Windows GUI and "visually pleasing" in the same sentence. I would be far more in agreement with the GUI in MacOS. While I am not thrilled with how they hide away the Unix underpinning it sure is pretty.

ejolson
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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Mon May 25, 2020 5:15 pm

bjtheone wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 4:53 pm
Not sure if I would put Windows GUI and "visually pleasing" in the same sentence. I would be far more in agreement with the GUI in MacOS. While I am not thrilled with how they hide away the Unix underpinning it sure is pretty.
My personal opinion is the Macintosh user interface was brilliantly designed for the 9 inch 512x342 monochrome display and single button mouse of the original hardware. However, detaching the menu bar from the currently selected window and placing it at the top of a 27" or larger screen makes my mouse very tired as it repeatedly travels what seems like miles to reach that distant menu.

Of course there are keyboard shortcuts and people get used to what they know. I guess that's why I still prefer the custom fvwm configuration I created in 1993.

Puffergas
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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Mon May 25, 2020 5:25 pm

I really like the standard Raspbian desktop.

bjtheone
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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Mon May 25, 2020 7:09 pm

ejolson wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 5:15 pm
My personal opinion is the Macintosh user interface was brilliantly designed for the 9 inch 512x342 monochrome display and single button mouse of the original hardware. However, detaching the menu bar from the currently selected window and placing it at the top of a 27" or larger screen makes my mouse very tired as it repeatedly travels what seems like miles to reach that distant menu.

Of course there are keyboard shortcuts and people get used to what they know. I guess that's why I still prefer the custom fvwm configuration I created in 1993.
While intelligent mouse acceleration settings solve that issue I do agree that menus should be attached to the window they are related to. That is also why all my non server Linux boxes run Mate, with the same tweaked theme.

Moonmarch
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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Mon May 25, 2020 11:30 pm

I used a Linux distribution called SparkyLinux before, the AMD64 version. There is actually a version of SparkyLinux that is compatible with the RPI computer. I don't know if the RPI version of SparkyLinux is still in development. Raspbian-X resembles SparkyLinux, I wouldn't say Raspbian-X is a Windows 10 clone. Here is a link to the SparkyLinux website:

SparkyLinux
https://sparkylinux.org/

I consider PI LAB to be innovative, more of a entrepreneur for the RPI computer user base. While I admit the software released by PI LAB is not software that I would use myself. I have my own approaches to adding software to operating systems, more specifically Raspbian. That's how I stay busy with Linux. PI LAB screams x86 emulators, I instead search for software that runs on ARMHF computers. There is plenty of ARMHF software out there on the internet to choose from. You need to be more creative that's all, run the software, see if the software is usable or not. PI LAB is on the RPI forums, don't assume PI LAB is not listening. PI LAB had a YouTube channel dedicated to x86 emulation on the RPI computer. ETA Prime has a YouTube channel dedicated to video game console emulation on the RPI computer. I still play Doom using the GZDoom source port, and I can add user made content to the base Doom game. That is how I stay busy, I have relatively low standards.

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mahjongg
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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Fri May 29, 2020 11:20 pm

PI-LABs have now released TWISTER-OS, a version where you can switch between a Windows/Raspberry PI OS and an OS-X look bij clicking an icon on the desktop, you can see a demonstration of it by ETA Prime here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX7tArVdf80

so the takedown has not made their OS disappear, but according to ETA Prime it only made it better. :!: :o

their website https://raspbian-x.com/ is also back, now featuring Twister OS.

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kerry_s
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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Fri May 29, 2020 11:39 pm

mahjongg wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 11:20 pm
PI-LABs have now released TWISTER-OS, a version where you can switch between a Windows/Raspberry PI OS and an OS-X look bij clicking an icon on the desktop, you can see a demonstration of it by ETA Prime here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX7tArVdf80

so the takedown has not made their OS disappear, but according to ETA Prime it only made it better. :!: :o

their website https://raspbian-x.com/ is also back, now featuring Twister OS.
so still illegal?
should we help users or send them somewhere else? :D

Heater
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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Sat May 30, 2020 8:34 am

kerry_s wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 11:39 pm
so still illegal?
I still don't understand which parts of this are illegal?

Certainly using other people's art work, logos, icons, etc, is subject to copyright protection. And certainly one does not want to be using someone else's trade marks.

I see no issue with making a some what similar UI to Win 10 or whatever though.

What actually was it that Raspbian-X had to take down?
Slava Ukrayini.

hippy
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Re: What happened to Raspbian-X?

Sat May 30, 2020 9:13 am

kerry_s wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 11:39 pm
so still illegal?
We don't know why they had to take-down the old site or why it might have been deemed "illegal".

As much as they call it an OS, it seems to me it's really only Linux with a desktop plus themes which make it look like other well known operating systems, with a few other readily available tools included.

I would presume it's not "illegal" because those who deemed it was would deem it still is if it were and would have it taken down again in such circumstances.

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