mrg9999
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RPI 4 8GB hardware version 1.4

Sun May 31, 2020 11:43 pm

Hi
My new RPI 4 8GB has hardware version 1.4
MemTotal: 8003796 kB
Hardware : BCM2835
Revision : d03114
Model : Raspberry Pi 4 Model B Rev 1.4

Previous RPI4 had versions 1.1 Problem with USB C power and 1.2 it was fixed

Is there a 1.3 version hardware and what is it in?

TIA

Mr.G
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W. H. Heydt
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Re: RPI 4 8GB hardware version 1.4

Sun May 31, 2020 11:54 pm

Not all board revisions go into production. For instance, the original version of the Pi0 was v1.1. When the CSI connector was added, then new boards were v1.3. There never was a v1.2 in the wild.

I wouldn't set any great store by a missing revision number.

rcfa
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Re: RPI 4 8GB hardware version 1.4

Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:57 pm

Is there anywhere a detailed description of what exactly Rev. 1.4 changes?

After all, the changes are deep enough, that a Kali Linux image, which boots RPi 3, RPi3+ and RPi4-4GB just fine won't boot on the Rev. 1.4 8GB board.

I wouldn't even know where to start, without any detailed description of how these boards differ both in hardware and software. The announcement also mentioned USB-C again, so there seems to be yet another difference between the 1.2 and 1.4 in regards to USB-C, in addition to the differences between the original and 1.2 revision.

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rpdom
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Re: RPI 4 8GB hardware version 1.4

Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:02 pm

rcfa wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:57 pm
After all, the changes are deep enough, that a Kali Linux image, which boots RPi 3, RPi3+ and RPi4-4GB just fine won't boot on the Rev. 1.4 8GB board.
Well, that's a simple matter of the memory change. The 8GB RAM needs new firmware files (fixup.dat etc) to handle the timings for the new RAM chip.
Unreadable squiggle

rcfa
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Re: RPI 4 8GB hardware version 1.4

Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:47 pm

Why would that affect the booting of the kernel?
Even after firmware update, the kernel gets stuck.

Also, and more importantly, where’s the documentation? If I want some OS distribution to adapt, I need to be able to point them at some documentation...

bjtheone
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Re: RPI 4 8GB hardware version 1.4

Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:01 am

I just upgraded a 4b 4GB to a 4B 8GB. Only weirdness was that I had to go into the sound settings and unmute to get sound again. That is the benefit of running the vendor supplied OS (well almost as I am running Lite + Mate). I suspect Kali will get sorted out eventually, the board has only been out for a week.

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Re: RPI 4 8GB hardware version 1.4

Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:04 am

rcfa wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:47 pm
Why would that affect the booting of the kernel?
Even after firmware update, the kernel gets stuck.

Also, and more importantly, where’s the documentation? If I want some OS distribution to adapt, I need to be able to point them at some documentation...
Where does it get stuck?

We do not officially document HW changes between revisions.
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Working in the Applications Team.

6by9
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Re: RPI 4 8GB hardware version 1.4

Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:30 pm

Rev 1.4 removes the EEPROM from the Via VL805, so the kernel and firmware gained a mechanism to load the firmware. https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/co ... 0f4cc4e97a

Ensure you've got an up to date kernel and firmware running.
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W. H. Heydt
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Re: RPI 4 8GB hardware version 1.4

Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:32 pm

6by9 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:30 pm
Rev 1.4 removes the EEPROM from the Via VL805, so the kernel and firmware gained a mechanism to load the firmware. https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/co ... 0f4cc4e97a

Ensure you've got an up to date kernel and firmware running.
It's been mentioned that the power section got moved around for the Pi4B8, and that won't be done for the other Pi4B models. Is this change something that will show up on other Pi4Bs?

Edit to add... Or is the VL805 change part of v1.2 for 2GB and 4GB Pi4Bs?

trejan
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Re: RPI 4 8GB hardware version 1.4

Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:07 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:32 pm
Or is the VL805 change part of v1.2 for 2GB and 4GB Pi4Bs?
The VL805 EEPROM was only removed for v1.4 (and newer). The rpi-eeprom-update tool is checking the revision to determine if the EEPROM exists.

mrg9999
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Re: RPI 4 8GB hardware version 1.4

Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:47 am

A few images that worked with RPI4 4GB give me this error message

start4x.elf not compatible. You may need newer firmware.

I tried pulling some more recent files down and the image boots, but the keyboard is not working. <baffled>
Mr.G

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Re: RPI 4 8GB hardware version 1.4

Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:57 am

mrg9999 wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:47 am
A few images that worked with RPI4 4GB give me this error message

start4x.elf not compatible. You may need newer firmware.

I tried pulling some more recent files down and the image boots, but the keyboard is not working. <baffled>
I have had intermittent problems with USB devices--keyboard, "mouse"--not being recognized at boot. Try unplugging the USB cable for a minute and then plugging it back in, or unplugging from one USB port then plugging into a different one. See if the keyboard "wakes up" when you do that.

leggazoid
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Re: RPI 4 8GB hardware version 1.4

Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:31 am

I made the mistake of playing with the GPU memory allotment and caused my 8gb RPI4 not to boot. The max is 512mb, and if you set it to 896 it doesn't boot.

I thought with so much ram I could max out the GPU, but after reading some forum posts it seems anything over 256mb is overkill.

I made several changes at that reboot and was confused what had caused the issue. I thought I had messed up the firmware. Luckily I tried another micro-sd card with raspi OS and after it booted fine I was able to narrow it down.

Cheers

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Re: RPI 4 8GB hardware version 1.4

Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:04 am

leggazoid wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:31 am
I made the mistake of playing with the GPU memory allotment and caused my 8gb RPI4 not to boot. The max is 512mb, and if you set it to 896 it doesn't boot.

I thought with so much ram I could max out the GPU, but after reading some forum posts it seems anything over 256mb is overkill.

I made several changes at that reboot and was confused what had caused the issue. I thought I had messed up the firmware. Luckily I tried another micro-sd card with raspi OS and after it booted fine I was able to narrow it down.
Numerous threads on this already.
Gpu_mem sets the memory reserved to Videocore vpu.
Pi4 v3d has an iommu so can use any memory.
The rendering hardware is controlled by the kernel with allocations from the kernel cma heap.

Gpu_mem is therefore only required for the camera and codecs, therefore making it huge is pointless. This is true for any pi running vc4-fkms-v3d or vc4-kms-v3d.

Both gpu_mem and cma heap must fit in the bottom 1GB of ram.
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rcfa
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Re: RPI 4 8GB hardware version 1.4

Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:48 pm

mrg9999 wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:47 am
A few images that worked with RPI4 4GB give me this error message

start4x.elf not compatible. You may need newer firmware.
That’s about the error I got with the most recent Kali image (2020.2a)

Basically, what I’m missing is a documentation that would tell someone doing an independent distro what they need to change given they have 3B, 3B+, 4B r1.1/r1.2 compatible image to get that to work with 4B r1.4/8GB

Given that the same image boots across 3 major generations of RPis, its a bit surprising that what’s considered a minor revision r1.2/1,2,4GB=> r1.4/8GB breaks things...
...and that getting some precise information on what is needed to fix it, is so hard to come by.

mrg9999
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Re: RPI 4 8GB hardware version 1.4

Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:36 pm

It was the same when the 4 came out last year. Nothing much worked for a long while, THEN everything worked. I am still mostly using my orginal 4 headless and it's behaved perfectly uptime since September last year. I guess I should be patient..
Mr.G

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Re: RPI 4 8GB hardware version 1.4

Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:40 pm

rcfa wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:48 pm
mrg9999 wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:47 am
A few images that worked with RPI4 4GB give me this error message

start4x.elf not compatible. You may need newer firmware.
That’s about the error I got with the most recent Kali image (2020.2a)

Basically, what I’m missing is a documentation that would tell someone doing an independent distro what they need to change given they have 3B, 3B+, 4B r1.1/r1.2 compatible image to get that to work with 4B r1.4/8GB

Given that the same image boots across 3 major generations of RPis, its a bit surprising that what’s considered a minor revision r1.2/1,2,4GB=> r1.4/8GB breaks things...
...and that getting some precise information on what is needed to fix it, is so hard to come by.
If I knew, I would tell you. But I don;t so I'll need to ask around the rest of the team.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

jamesh
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Re: RPI 4 8GB hardware version 1.4

Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:25 pm

OK, so there is specific mailbox call required on the rev 6 (1.4) board that is used on the Pi4/8 to get the VLI firmware in the correct state. The VLI eeprom is no longer fitted and we upload the firmware from the boot loader eeprom instead, and this requires that extra mailbox call to work correctly.

Currently waiting for more details on the call and where its is instigated in the kernel boot process.
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trejan
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Re: RPI 4 8GB hardware version 1.4

Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:33 pm

jamesh wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:25 pm
OK, so there is specific mailbox call required on the rev 6 (1.4) board that is used on the Pi4/8 to get the VLI firmware in the correct state. The VLI eeprom is no longer fitted and we upload the firmware from the boot loader eeprom instead, and this requires that extra mailbox call to work correctly.

Currently waiting for more details on the call and where its is instigated in the kernel boot process.
Looks to be https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/co ... 2d72ce4836

6by9
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Re: RPI 4 8GB hardware version 1.4

Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:26 am

trejan wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:33 pm
jamesh wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:25 pm
OK, so there is specific mailbox call required on the rev 6 (1.4) board that is used on the Pi4/8 to get the VLI firmware in the correct state. The VLI eeprom is no longer fitted and we upload the firmware from the boot loader eeprom instead, and this requires that extra mailbox call to work correctly.

Currently waiting for more details on the call and where its is instigated in the kernel boot process.
Looks to be https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/co ... 2d72ce4836
Deja vu - viewtopic.php?f=91&t=275782#p1673901
Mine is the 5.4 branch vs yours being 4.19.
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jamesh
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Re: RPI 4 8GB hardware version 1.4

Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:35 am

Ah yes, so this thread already contains all the information needed.

I wonder if we should have a page in the docs describing what needs to be done to port an OS.
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rcfa
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Re: RPI 4 8GB hardware version 1.4

Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:32 pm

jamesh wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:35 am
Ah yes, so this thread already contains all the information needed.

I wonder if we should have a page in the docs describing what needs to be done to port an OS.
That would certainly not hurt, especially when revisions affect the boot process, because that‘s the most critical thing. Once a system is up, one can deal with getting other things working, but if it stalls at booting, it‘s a show stopper.

That there are differences between the various major models e.g 3B, 3B+, 4B, etc. is to be expected, but when something like a minor board revision or more RAM results in changes of the boot process, that needs to be communicated well...

With some guesswork and semi-random copying of parts of the Raspberry Pi OS boot partition onto the Kali Linux boot partition, I got the system to boot off an SD card, but despite the new beta boot loader, which allows me to run RaPOS off an USB drive, so far no luck getting Kali to run off an USB drive... So partial success.

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