petracus
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:06 pm

Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:26 am

Is there any possibility to use opnebox instead of mutter on raspberry larger than 2gb?

Performance has dropped considerably on bullseye for office use.

Greetings.

User avatar
kerry_s
Posts: 3767
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:14 pm

Re: Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:42 am

Code: Select all

sudo mousepad /etc/xdg/lxsession/LXDE-pi/desktop.conf
line #2:
window_manager=mutter
to
window_manager=openbox

save & reboot


petracus
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:06 pm

Re: Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:46 pm

Now, I can change resolution & rotation and changes persists!

Double thanks!

Chimneyfactory
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun May 19, 2019 1:30 pm

Re: Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Sat Nov 13, 2021 2:19 pm

Just a +1 on this. mutter seems slow when you've alt tabbed to a different window, mouse and keypresses are very sluggish for 3 - 5 seconds. Makes rapid switching between windows very frustrating.

I changed back to openbox and it's much better.

Pi4 4GB

ejolson
Posts: 9546
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:17 pm

kerry_s wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:42 am

Code: Select all

sudo mousepad /etc/xdg/lxsession/LXDE-pi/desktop.conf
line #2:
window_manager=mutter
to
window_manager=openbox

save & reboot
Thanks for the tip. While it's easy to edit that file, I know the Mate desktop on x86 has a clickable mouse option to enable or disable compositing.

Maybe a similar option could be added to the Raspberry Pi, some documentation about what to try if the desktop is slow or at least make this a sticky thread like the one on the USB3 speed problems.

User avatar
kerry_s
Posts: 3767
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:14 pm

Re: Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Sat Nov 13, 2021 11:08 pm

mate desktop uses marco wm.

mutter comes from gnome developers who wanted to keep it as simple as possible.

i just checked, looks like switching to marco would be just as easy. it doesn't pull that much in.

Code: Select all

Directory: /home/pi 
$ ins marco
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
The following additional packages will be installed:
  libgtop-2.0-11 libgtop2-common libmarco-private2 libxpresent1 marco-common
  mate-desktop-common
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  libgtop-2.0-11 libgtop2-common libmarco-private2 libxpresent1 marco
  marco-common mate-desktop-common
0 upgraded, 7 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 1,689 kB of archives.
After this operation, 11.0 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n
Abort.



User avatar
Annie UK
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:05 am
Location: UK

Re: Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:05 am

I have changed from mutter to openbox but now have a coupe of issues :(

I can no longer use Ctrl + Alt + T to open a terminal ans lxappearance gives the error "Segmentation fault" so I cannot change the theme easily
Annie - Raspberry Pi 4 Model B Rev 1.4 8GB - Ubuntu 22.04 aarch64
Full Pi spec (1. Daily Driver): https://annieuk.ddns.net/pc-spec.php?dark=1

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 31020
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:33 am

kerry_s wrote:
Sat Nov 13, 2021 11:08 pm
mate desktop uses marco wm.

mutter comes from gnome developers who wanted to keep it as simple as possible.
Gnome want to make things so simple they simply do not work properly. So many issues with Gnome's work, not just Mutter but GTK3 as well, caused us no end of problems, and they are STILL coming out of the woodwork.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

petracus
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:06 pm

Re: Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:44 am

Annie UK wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:05 am
I have changed from mutter to openbox but now have a coupe of issues :(

I can no longer use Ctrl + Alt + T to open a terminal ans lxappearance gives the error "Segmentation fault" so I cannot change the theme easily
For theme change, you should activate openbox configuration menu in main menu editor (category preferences).

User avatar
Annie UK
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:05 am
Location: UK

Re: Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:49 am

petracus wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:44 am
Annie UK wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:05 am
I have changed from mutter to openbox but now have a coupe of issues :(

I can no longer use Ctrl + Alt + T to open a terminal ans lxappearance gives the error "Segmentation fault" so I cannot change the theme easily
For theme change, you should activate openbox configuration menu in main menu editor (category preferences).
openbox configuration menu is greyed out and nothing happens when I select the option :(

I've installed obconf and run that from terminal
Annie - Raspberry Pi 4 Model B Rev 1.4 8GB - Ubuntu 22.04 aarch64
Full Pi spec (1. Daily Driver): https://annieuk.ddns.net/pc-spec.php?dark=1

User avatar
kerry_s
Posts: 3767
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:14 pm

Re: Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:26 pm

jamesh wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:33 am
kerry_s wrote:
Sat Nov 13, 2021 11:08 pm
mate desktop uses marco wm.

mutter comes from gnome developers who wanted to keep it as simple as possible.
Gnome want to make things so simple they simply do not work properly. So many issues with Gnome's work, not just Mutter but GTK3 as well, caused us no end of problems, and they are STILL coming out of the woodwork.
using gnome stuff is always difficult, to many pieces tied together. gtk3 is so ridged in it's design, whats set is set.
personally, i think they should of went with the qt, as others have done trying to move away from gnome parts.
or
more commonly mixing both qt & gtk, with qt the priority & gtk were no qt equivalent, as is the case with some apps.

there's always the option to just tweak less & use it as it comes from the repo' a more standardized desktop.

pidd
Posts: 3502
Joined: Fri May 29, 2020 8:29 pm
Location: Wirral, UK

Re: Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:27 pm

With openbox mine was ignoring keyboard volume and mute controls

If you add the alsa volume control applet (in the add/remove panel items) you can use that to program those keys in. The applet won't run alsamixer because it tries to use xterm, I've not looked into that yet.

Volume was also reduced so ran alsamixer from terminal and turned the device volume up.

Chimneyfactory
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun May 19, 2019 1:30 pm

Re: Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:38 pm

Annie UK wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:05 am
I have changed from mutter to openbox but now have a coupe of issues :(

I can no longer use Ctrl + Alt + T to open a terminal ans lxappearance gives the error "Segmentation fault" so I cannot change the theme easily
+1 on this

Ctrl Alt T does nothing in Openbox (previously opened terminal window in Buster)

Works OK in mutter

drmullins
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:22 pm

Re: Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:15 am

Do not modify in lxsession as this stops ctrl alt t working amongst othe problems. Instead , to enable openbox to work properly, enable vnc in raspi-config or modify startlxde-pi. See other threads - search for Mutter. Also remove lxappearance-obconf to make lxappearance and obconf work properly.

User avatar
kerry_s
Posts: 3767
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:14 pm

Re: Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:42 am

when changing back to openbox, you get a default openbox.
you can go into ~/.config/openbox and set your own keyboard shortcuts or copy the settings from /etc/xdg

you can use all the openbox tools without lxde-pi overwriting your settings since it uses rc.xml instead of lxde-pi-rc.xml

the only problem here is the lack of experience, openbox was around long before lxde decided to use it. it's a window manager that can be setup independent of all the other parts. just use some google fu and learn.

User avatar
rpdom
Posts: 20051
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 5:17 am
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

Re: Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:59 am

kerry_s wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:42 am
you can go into ~/.config/openbox and set your own keyboard shortcuts or copy the settings from /etc/xdg

you can use all the openbox tools without lxde-pi overwriting your settings since it uses rc.xml instead of lxde-pi-rc.xml
You can use lxhotkey to add shortcuts instead of messing with the files yourself. Just remember to click the Save icon when done or you will lose your changes.
Unreadable squiggle

User avatar
kerry_s
Posts: 3767
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:14 pm

Re: Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:22 am

You can use lxhotkey to add shortcuts instead of messing with the files yourself. Just remember to click the Save icon when done or you will lose your changes.
good to know, thanks.
that would mean all the gui tools work when switching back to openbox.

drmullins
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:22 pm

Re: Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:55 pm

I've tried lxhotkey with openbox enabled instead of mutter but it stops with a message saying that openbox is not supported. (It also said mutter was not supported when I tried it with Mutter)

User avatar
rpdom
Posts: 20051
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 5:17 am
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

Re: Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:56 pm

Do you have lxhotkey-plugin-openbox installed?
Unreadable squiggle

drmullins
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:22 pm

Re: Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:16 pm

Thanks - all working now. I wish there was a plugin for mutter or whatever ancilliary package Raspberry Pi OS is or should be using for keyboard shortcuts - but c'est la vie I suppose.

dmitrmax
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:35 pm

Re: Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:20 am

kerry_s wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:42 am

Code: Select all

sudo mousepad /etc/xdg/lxsession/LXDE-pi/desktop.conf
line #2:
window_manager=mutter
to
window_manager=openbox

save & reboot
Did it. RPi still boots into GUI with mutter running. Any clues?

pidd
Posts: 3502
Joined: Fri May 29, 2020 8:29 pm
Location: Wirral, UK

Re: Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Mon Feb 07, 2022 12:31 pm

The memory size trick is a better method as it pulls in all the settings (eg keyboard shortcuts etc) for openbox
drmullins wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:47 am
Reply to ChimneyFactory. Ctrl alt t works correctly if openbox is enabled by either - enabling VNC in Raspberry Pi preferences - or by modifying /usr/bin/startlxde-pi to replace 2048 by e.g. 20480 as the memory threshold for enabling Mutter rather than openbox. Modifying desktop.conf to replace Mutter by openbox does not seem to work properly (completely) and causes ctrl alt t shortcut to stop working. There's no bug in openbox in this regard.
EDIT: Since 1st Mar 2022 /usr/bin/X11/startlxde-pi
Last edited by pidd on Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
kerry_s
Posts: 3767
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:14 pm

Re: Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Mon Feb 07, 2022 1:06 pm

i've been testing using using jwm instead of openbox or mutter. jwm is no frills, very basic, i have it acting as window manager only.
get the speed of openbox with the border tiling of mutter, no compositor, no flickering shadows.

Code: Select all

sudo apt install jwm
window_manager=jwm

~/.jwmrc

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<JWM>
    <Group>
        <Option>aerosnap</Option>
        <Option>centered</Option>
    </Group>

    <WindowStyle>
        <Font>Piboto-12</Font>
        <Width>4</Width>
        <Height>22</Height>
        <Corner>3</Corner>
        <Foreground>#FFFFFF</Foreground>
        <Background>#555555</Background>
        <Outline>#000000</Outline>
        <Opacity>1.0</Opacity>
        <Active>
            <Foreground>#FFFFFF</Foreground>
            <Background>#252525</Background>
            <Outline>#000000</Outline>
            <Opacity>1.0</Opacity>
        </Active>
    </WindowStyle>

    <IconPath>
        /usr/local/share/jwm
    </IconPath>

    <Desktops width="1" height="1"></Desktops>

    <DoubleClickSpeed>200</DoubleClickSpeed>
    <DoubleClickDelta>2</DoubleClickDelta>
    <FocusModel>click</FocusModel>

    <SnapMode distance="10">border</SnapMode>
    <MoveMode>opaque</MoveMode>
    <ResizeMode>opaque</ResizeMode>

    <Key key="Up">up</Key>
    <Key key="Down">down</Key>
    <Key key="Right">right</Key>
    <Key key="Left">left</Key>
    <Key key="h">left</Key>
    <Key key="j">down</Key>
    <Key key="k">up</Key>
    <Key key="l">right</Key>
    <Key key="Return">select</Key>
    <Key key="Escape">escape</Key>

    <Key mask="A" key="Tab">nextstacked</Key>
    <Key mask="A" key="F4">close</Key>
    <Key key="Super_L">exec:lxpanelctl menu</Key>
    <Key mask="A" key="F2">exec:lxpanelctl run</Key>
    <Key mask="Ctrl+A" key="Up">maximize</Key>
    <Key mask="Ctrl+A" key="t">exec:x-terminal-emulator</Key>
    <Key key="Print">exec:scrot</Key>
    <Key mask="Ctrl+A" key="End">exec:lxde-pi-shutdown-helper</Key>
    <Key mask="Ctrl+A" key="Delete">exec:lxde-pi-shutdown-helper</Key>
    <Key mask="Ctrl+A" key="Left">maxleft</Key>
    <Key mask="Ctrl+A" key="Right">maxright</Key>
    <Key mask="Ctrl+A" key="r">restart</Key>
</JWM>


drmullins
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:22 pm

Re: Use openbox instead of mutter in rpi4 2-4-8gb

Mon Feb 07, 2022 1:07 pm

If you are only avoiding mutter because of lack of support for custom keyboard shortcuts, you can easily add them using xbindkeys - I've updated a thread on Keyboard Shortcuts in Troubleshooting to describe this.

Return to “Raspberry Pi OS”