User avatar
cr_chsn1
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu May 06, 2021 11:18 am
Location: Germany

Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:32 pm

Two days ago a commit at the GitHub-repo at raspberry/linux was made, introducing the Compute Module 4S.
Since the seaches for "Compute Mopdule 4S" and "CM4S" are not very helpful, are there any information about the 4S available?

Link: https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/co ... f6b2876257
RASPICED - Raspberry Pi Overclocking
https://www.raspiced.com

User avatar
thagrol
Posts: 8232
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:41 pm
Location: Darkest Somerset, UK

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:25 am

I doubt it. RPTL don't annouce things until they're available to purchase.
Knowledge, skills, & experience have value. If you expect to profit from someone's you should expect to pay for them.

All advice given is based on my experience. it worked for me, it may not work for you.
Need help? https://github.com/thagrol/Guides

trejan
Posts: 5157
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:28 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:52 am

Looks to be a size/cost reduced CM4. It is missing BT/WiFi, PCIe and Ethernet. Maybe it uses the old CM DIMM form factor.

aBUGSworstnightmare
Posts: 6102
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:35 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:59 am

https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/pull/4761
Looks like there will be something new, but which form factor? Would make sense to have it on the CM3 size.
Dropping PCIe from a CM4 size module would not make sense, only if it is using a new SOC - so what if 'the thing' will be based on RP3A0 or some new SIP? Having more products making use of it should result in faster amortization of the NRE costs.

Anyhow, new means more money to spend to get one's dirty hands on ..

andrum99
Posts: 1689
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:41 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:54 am

My guess would be that the 'S' stands for 'small', assuming trejan's analysis is correct and it doesn't have those high-speed interfaces. I expect it to have a new, small form factor, and be based on the existing BCM2711 SoC as currently packaged. It might have a BCM2711-based SIP instead: let's call that imaginary new SIP the RP4. I think a new SIP is unlikely though. Given the rest of the CM4 product line uses the BCM2711, which is significantly different to the BCM2710A0 used in RP3, I don't think it will use an RP3 SIP.

As for when the product will launch: in the past subtle hints at new products have publicly appeared just before the product is announced, so I expect we'll find out before Christmas.

User avatar
rpdom
Posts: 20898
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 5:17 am
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Fri Dec 17, 2021 7:56 am

My guess is something like the Pico format, but maybe a little bigger. Castellated connections for soldering direct to a main board.

I'm probably wrong ;)
Unreadable squiggle

User avatar
Gavinmc42
Posts: 6912
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:31 am

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:07 am

Whatever it is I will probably buy some and use them ;)
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

User avatar
MikeDB
Posts: 1374
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:27 am

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:12 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:07 am
Whatever it is I will probably buy some and use them ;)
Whatever it is it will sell out immediately and then be on twelve months leadtime at Farnell/RS, as will the connectors for it :-)
Always interested in innovative audio startups needing help and investment. Look for InPoSe Ltd or Future Horizons on LinkedIn to find me (same avatar photograph)

User avatar
MikeDB
Posts: 1374
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:27 am

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:15 am

trejan wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:52 am
Looks to be a size/cost reduced CM4. It is missing BT/WiFi, PCIe and Ethernet. Maybe it uses the old CM DIMM form factor.
Thinking some more, removing those and moving USB to the low speed connector would allow use of a single Hirose connector, hence meeting the rules in the latest Hirose datasheet.

Not sure why they're doing it since the existing CM4 is on such long lead times.
Always interested in innovative audio startups needing help and investment. Look for InPoSe Ltd or Future Horizons on LinkedIn to find me (same avatar photograph)

User avatar
rpdom
Posts: 20898
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 5:17 am
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:14 am

MikeDB wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:15 am
trejan wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:52 am
Looks to be a size/cost reduced CM4. It is missing BT/WiFi, PCIe and Ethernet. Maybe it uses the old CM DIMM form factor.
Thinking some more, removing those and moving USB to the low speed connector would allow use of a single Hirose connector, hence meeting the rules in the latest Hirose datasheet.
My theory of a "pico-like" format, but bigger or more dense connections would mean that no connectors are required at all.
Not sure why they're doing it since the existing CM4 is on such long lead times.
Why should they stop designing things just because they take longer to produce?
I doubt the board designers are personally making the boards.
Unreadable squiggle

User avatar
MikeDB
Posts: 1374
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:27 am

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:34 am

rpdom wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:14 am
Why should they stop designing things just because they take longer to produce?
I doubt the board designers are personally making the boards.
(based on a true story) One reason would be because the Manufacturing Director and Test Department manager are already be tearing their hair out trying to get existing stuff out the door and one of them would suffer a coronary if you present them with another new product.
Always interested in innovative audio startups needing help and investment. Look for InPoSe Ltd or Future Horizons on LinkedIn to find me (same avatar photograph)

User avatar
Gavinmc42
Posts: 6912
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:31 am

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:48 am

Designer got to design, it's like breathing.

If there is a need to get software working then there is either Alpha/Beta prototypes around or on the way.
Production could be some time away depending on any faults/bugs/features.

Then a few Betas might get out to a few select testers.
Small production batch to dial in the machines.
Meantime stock is piling up waiting for the green light.

How long this takes?
These days there might even be alternative designs in case a part does not show up.
S for small or subcompact, probably going to have minimal parts so lower risk.
Module with SOC, Memory, Power, castellated low freq GPIO + high density high speed connector?

Tinkers need an easy to use solder method, Server makers need high speed.
Will it do both?
How many will fit in 1 U?

Speculation and crystal ball time.

Based on previous releases it won't be pink unless Adafruit asks for it :lol:
To make it small like Nano's from others then Wireless and Ethernet will be off board.
Which is ok for LOTs of projects, maybe eval daughter/mother board with those on it.

If it has a camera connector on it then tiny camera projects :D
ML vision just got 4 x A72 cores.
Two connectors is bonus time.

Just a few ideas if the Designer is out of them ;)
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

Mikeynl
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:36 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:16 pm

Also the hdm1 is not connected anymore.

Mikeynl
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:36 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Mon Dec 20, 2021 7:07 pm

rpdom wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 7:56 am
My guess is something like the Pico format, but maybe a little bigger. Castellated connections for soldering direct to a main board.

I'm probably wrong ;)
Or as stated before, drop-in replacement for the cm3. That one has insane leadtimes. Almost someone was sleeping and missed some order boat...

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 31871
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Mon Dec 20, 2021 7:28 pm

Mikeynl wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 7:07 pm
rpdom wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 7:56 am
My guess is something like the Pico format, but maybe a little bigger. Castellated connections for soldering direct to a main board.

I'm probably wrong ;)
Or as stated before, drop-in replacement for the cm3. That one has insane leadtimes. Almost someone was sleeping and missed some order boat...
Lead times are a direct result of the worldwide chip supply crisis, which affects almost every single industry out there. Look at the car manufacturers, shutting down entire production lines.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/these-in ... 54251.html
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

User avatar
thagrol
Posts: 8232
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:41 pm
Location: Darkest Somerset, UK

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Mon Dec 20, 2021 7:39 pm

trejan wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:52 am
Looks to be a size/cost reduced CM4. It is missing BT/WiFi, PCIe and Ethernet. Maybe it uses the old CM DIMM form factor.
That'd be my guess. A CM4 to fit existing embedded designs using CM and CM3. I imagine there is already a demand for such a module from industrial customers.

Assuming that those customers want the increased CPU performance and the option for increased RAM but can live with almost all the IO going over a single USB 2 port.

Edit: and the larger number of available GPIO on the old connector.
Knowledge, skills, & experience have value. If you expect to profit from someone's you should expect to pay for them.

All advice given is based on my experience. it worked for me, it may not work for you.
Need help? https://github.com/thagrol/Guides

User avatar
MikeDB
Posts: 1374
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:27 am

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:05 pm

Mikeynl wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 7:07 pm
rpdom wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 7:56 am
My guess is something like the Pico format, but maybe a little bigger. Castellated connections for soldering direct to a main board.

I'm probably wrong ;)
Or as stated before, drop-in replacement for the cm3. That one has insane leadtimes. Almost someone was sleeping and missed some order boat...
CM3 has HDMI. This one seems not to. And CM4 lead times are just as stretched.

Can't believe they're going to launch anything 3 days before Christmas so presumably if it actually exists maybe we'll find out on the Monday after New Year.
Always interested in innovative audio startups needing help and investment. Look for InPoSe Ltd or Future Horizons on LinkedIn to find me (same avatar photograph)

Mikeynl
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:36 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:01 pm

Code: Select all

&hdmi0 {
	clocks = <&firmware_clocks 13>, <&firmware_clocks 14>, <&dvp 0>, <&clk_27MHz>;
	clock-names = "hdmi", "bvb", "audio", "cec";
	wifi-2.4ghz-coexistence;
	status = "okay";
};
Only no hdmi1

Mikeynl
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:36 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:22 pm

jamesh wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 7:28 pm
Mikeynl wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 7:07 pm
rpdom wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 7:56 am
My guess is something like the Pico format, but maybe a little bigger. Castellated connections for soldering direct to a main board.

I'm probably wrong ;)
Or as stated before, drop-in replacement for the cm3. That one has insane leadtimes. Almost someone was sleeping and missed some order boat...
Lead times are a direct result of the worldwide chip supply crisis, which affects almost every single industry out there. Look at the car manufacturers, shutting down entire production lines.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/these-in ... 54251.html
I know the shortage, have to deal with it myself almost daily. Meanwhile that article is 8 months old. And in Holland cars slowly getting delivered, if not you get a date. I dont see any dates of the cm3, or any updates.

User avatar
MikeDB
Posts: 1374
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:27 am

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:09 pm

Mikeynl wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:22 pm
I know the shortage, have to deal with it myself almost daily. Meanwhile that article is 8 months old. And in Holland cars slowly getting delivered, if not you get a date. I dont see any dates of the cm3, or any updates.
Yeah - my car dealer is hassling me to upgrade to the new model for immediate delivery, and it's not even three years old until next April.
Always interested in innovative audio startups needing help and investment. Look for InPoSe Ltd or Future Horizons on LinkedIn to find me (same avatar photograph)


aBUGSworstnightmare
Posts: 6102
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:35 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:36 pm

Based on the commit comments a CM1/3 size looks reasonable. Would also match with drop of HDMI-1 i.e.

Anyhow, a CM1/3 sized module using BCM2711 (?) would be beneficial i.e. because of new GPU (higher resolution achievable). Let's wait an see what will come ...

User avatar
Gavinmc42
Posts: 6912
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:31 am

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:14 am

Anyhow, a CM1/3 sized module using BCM2711 (?) would be beneficial i.e. because of new GPU (higher resolution achievable). Let's wait an see what will come ...
Probably a lot of CM3 embedded in displays.
Lots of saved engineering and $$$$ by having a drop-in CM4 upgrade.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

cleverca22
Posts: 6834
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:33 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Thu Dec 23, 2021 3:28 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:14 am
Probably a lot of CM3 embedded in displays.
https://www.nec-display.com/dl/en/manua ... index.html
an example of just that

thinking about the overall pinout and peripherals, if you just ignore the RGMII(gigabit), pci-e, and 2nd hdmi port, the bcm2711 can be mostly just a drop-in replacement (if you also ignore the exact pinmuxing of things like serial/i2c/spi)

that could also solve the hirose connector issues some people have complained about, if they dont need the high speed parts of the bcm2711

User avatar
MikeDB
Posts: 1374
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:27 am

Re: Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4S (S?)

Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:54 am

cleverca22 wrote:
Thu Dec 23, 2021 3:28 am
that could also solve the hirose connector issues some people have complained about, if they dont need the high speed parts of the bcm2711
Yeah I've speculatively started a new PCB layout with both Hirose and the CM3 connector. Might be one way to ensure some shipments in 2022.
Always interested in innovative audio startups needing help and investment. Look for InPoSe Ltd or Future Horizons on LinkedIn to find me (same avatar photograph)

Return to “Compute Module”